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Acts 20:7: The First Day of the Week, or a Sabbath?

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Re: Acts 20:7: The First Day of the Week, or a Sabbath?

Postby Swalchy » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:52 pm

due to the confusion

To be a Greek speaking Hebrew living under Roman civil and Jewish religious law ... just thinking about it makes my head spin! ;)
:lol:

Exactly.

Must've been extremely difficult, especially with all the Greco-Roman culture engulfing the every day working lives of the populace.

But then, there's a reason why there's a lot "lost in translation" :)

We've got Greek speaking Yahuwdeans trying to explain Hebraic, and Yahuwdean, concepts and ideas to people who had been brought up in the Greco-Roman culture, and their way of thinking - not an easy task!
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Re: Acts 20:7: The First Day of the Week, or a Sabbath?

Postby RidesWithYah » Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:49 pm

The followers in Acts 20:7 weren’t gathering together because it was a Sunday, or because they had changed the Sabbath day to another day – they were gathering because they were following Scriptures command to gather in an assembly on the Feast of Firstfruits, which just happens to always fall on a Sunday.
How can this be? The preceding verses (1-6) of the same chapter say "we" stayed at Phillippi until AFTER the days of unleavened bread, and then it took another five days to get to Troas. Firstfruits was at least a week before Paul arrived, so how could he be preaching on that day?

Todd Bennett's explanation seems to make more sense -- after gathering together on the Sabbath, believers would stay together for a meal prepared after sundown. So breaking bread on the first day of the week is what we would call "Saturday night". This fits with Paul preaching late, Eutychus falling asleep, and Paul departing in the morning of the first day of the week.

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Re: Acts 20:7: The First Day of the Week, or a Sabbath?

Postby Swalchy » Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:09 pm

Well, to quote from my blog post:

And in Acts, it appears between the feast of Unleavened Bread (Acts 20:6 (the word translated as “after” should actually be translated “together with”)) and Pentecost (Acts 20:16).

From what I can gather, in this year in Acts 20, the first day of Firstfruits happened to be at the end of week long festival of Unleavened bread (the last day of Unleavened bread also falling on a natural Sabbath), and they travelled on the five days they were allowed to travel on.

So they were in Philippi for the first day of Unleavened bread (Sunday (or Saturday evening to Sunday evening)), travelled by ship Monday through Friday, and then were in Troas for the final day of Unleavened bread (Saturday (or Friday evening to Saturday evening)), ready to celebrate the Feast of Firstfruits that Saturday night.

With this in mind, we might actually be able to give an exact year to this event in Acts 20.
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Re: Acts 20:7: The First Day of the Week, or a Sabbath?

Postby RidesWithYah » Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:12 pm

(Acts 20:6 (the word translated as “after” should actually be translated “together with”))
G3326
μετά
meta
met-ah'
A primary preposition (often used adverbially); properly denoting accompaniment; “amid” (local or causal); modified variously according to the case (genitive case association, or accusative case succession) with which it is joined; occupying an intermediate position between G575 or G1537 and G1519 or G4314; less intimate than G1722, and less close than G4862): - after (-ward),X that he again, against, among, X and, + follow, hence, hereafter, in, of, (up-) on, + our, X and setting, since, (un-) to, + together, when, with (+ -out). Often used in composition, in substantially the same relations of participation or proximity, and transfer or sequence.
Thanks for clearing that up. Can't believe King James let me down, that's the first time that's happened... :lol:

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Re: Acts 20:7: The First Day of the Week, or a Sabbath?

Postby willbrinsonferguson » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:19 am

This article is quoted as saying:
“Whilst they may have “gathered together to break bread” on the “first day of the week”, meeting together on a Sabbath day wasn’t actually part of the 10 Commandments

While it was not commanded to gather on the 7th day Shabbaths in the 10 Commandments it was defiantly commanded for us to gather together on the Shabbawths every 7th Day in Leviticus chapter 23:1-3. The 7th Day Shabbawths are defiantly a part of Yahuwah’ Appointed Times. (See: Amplified English translation by below)

1-2YAHUWEH (YHWH) SPOKE THESE WORDS (dabar - communicated) to (‘el) Moseh (moseh - one who draws out), saying (‘amar - answering and promising, intending), ‘Speak the Word to (dabar - communicated with) the Children (ben) of Yisra’el (yisra’el - from ‘ys sarah and ‘el, those who strive and struggle with, those who persist and endure with, those who persevere with and are empowered by God), and say (‘amar - call out, declare, and promise that) these Godly (‘el-leh) APPOINTED MEETING TIMES (mow’ed - fixed assembly betrothal appointments which focus on the specific purpose designated by the Authority) of Yahuweh, these related (‘asher) SET-APART (qodesh) ASSEMBLIES OF THE CALLED OUT (miqra’ey - the calling together; from qara’, to call out, to read, and recite), shall be proclaimed (qara’ - called out, read aloud, and recited) IN RELATIONSHIP TO (‘asher) THEIR APPOINTED MEETING TIMES (mow’ed - their fixed betrothal appointments where the assembly focuses on the specific purpose which was designated by the Authority).’ 3Six (ses) days (yowmym) the service of the spiritual messenger (mala’kah) shall be performed (‘asah - accomplished), so then (wa) IN (ba) THE (ha) SEVENTH (shaby’y) DAY (yowm) WILL BE A SABBATH (shabat - time of rest and reflection), A SET-APART (qodesh) CALLED-OUT ASSEMBLY (miqra’) for rest and reflection (shabatown). All (kol) service of the heavenly messenger (mala’kah) shall not (lo’) be done (‘asah - performed). It is Yahuweh’s Sabbath (shabat - time for rest and reflection) in (ba) all (kol) your (‘atem) dwelling places and throughout time (mosab - wherever and whenever you assemble).


Strong’ Dictionary
H4744
מקרא
miqrâ'mik-raw'
From H7121; something called out, that is, a public meeting (the act, the persons, or the palce); also a rehearsal: - assembly, calling, convocation, reading.

So even though it was not commanded when the 10 Commandments were given, the statement implying that we are not commanded to gather on the 7th Day Shabbawths is wrong and misleading as to the point being made by the author.

I agree that the DAY in question was not a 7th Day Shabbawth and that it was actually the first day of the count, of 50 days, to Shavuot (which just so happens to fall on the same day pagans call sun’-day. So yes the christians are wrong along with any one that claims it was a 7th day meeting as well.

I encourage the author of this article to edit the part where it states we are not commanded to gather on the 7th Day Shabbawths, as it is not a truthful implication, awmane.
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YHWH cause His face to shine on thee, and be gracious to thee;
YHWH lift up His face to thee, and give thee shalom.


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Re: Acts 20:7: The First Day of the Week, or a Sabbath?

Postby willbrinsonferguson » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:43 am

Well, to quote from my blog post:

And in Acts, it appears between the feast of Unleavened Bread (Acts 20:6 (the word translated as “after” should actually be translated “together with”)) and Pentecost (Acts 20:16).

From what I can gather, in this year in Acts 20, the first day of Firstfruits happened to be at the end of week long festival of Unleavened bread (the last day of Unleavened bread also falling on a natural Sabbath), and they travelled on the five days they were allowed to travel on.

So they were in Philippi for the first day of Unleavened bread (Sunday (or Saturday evening to Sunday evening)), travelled by ship Monday through Friday, and then were in Troas for the final day of Unleavened bread (Saturday (or Friday evening to Saturday evening)), ready to celebrate the Feast of Firstfruits that Saturday night.

With this in mind, we might actually be able to give an exact year to this event in Acts 20.
Are they allowed to not be at Yerushalayim after the first High Shabbawth (15th day) of the Feast of Unleavened-Bread? Do they not have to be at Yerushalayim for the wave sheaf offering or the second High Shabbawth (last day of the feast). This IS one of the Feast that the males are required to be at Yerushalayim. How is it that they are allowed to leave and go to another town? You have them skipping town before the wave sheaf offering and the second Shabbawth Day. These Shabbawths are days that are to be gathered on (lev 23:4-8), so how is it that they can opt out of a HOLY CONOVACATION in Yerushalayim ? (Deu 16:16 Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before Yahuwah thy Ailoheem in the place which He shall choose; in the Feast of Unleavened-Bread, and in the Feast of Weeks, and in the Feast of Tabernacles)
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YHWH bless thee and keep thee;
YHWH cause His face to shine on thee, and be gracious to thee;
YHWH lift up His face to thee, and give thee shalom.


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Re: Acts 20:7: The First Day of the Week, or a Sabbath?

Postby Swalchy » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:10 pm

Hi Will, and welcome to the forums (and thanks for pointing out the image loading problem on the registration :))

Firstly, can everybody remember that double-posting (that is, posting a reply directly after you've already replied and no one has yet posted after you) is discouraged, and if you have anything else to say in the same post that you use the Edit button on the post. It saves on my bandwidth and database space, which I don't particularly have a lot of.

Secondly, when posting something from an external source, make sure you notify people from where you've got it from.

In your case Will, you've quoted from CW's YY Book 2: Called out Assemblies: Pesach. This is to make sure that people know and understand where the information is coming from, and so that they can check it themselves.

Anyway, onto actually replying. I deal with your second bit first:
Are they allowed to not be at Yerushalayim after the first High Shabbawth (15th day) of the Feast of Unleavened-Bread? Do they not have to be at Yerushalayim for the wave sheaf offering or the second High Shabbawth (last day of the feast). This IS one of the Feast that the males are required to be at Yerushalayim.
Could you point to the verse that states that everyone has to be at Jerusalem after the start of unleavened bread? I looked in Leviticus 23 and Deuteronomy 16, the main places that talk about the feasts, and I couldn't find anything in there saying about people having to be at Jerusalem for unleavened bread. It states that the Passover lamb cannot be sacrificed at any other place other than "the place that Yahuweh will choose to make His name dwell there." Granted, I did only take a quick look at them.

And I really only pointed out what happened, not whether it was right with where they were. And I seriously doubt that the whole male population of the Yisra'elites could fit in Jerusalem anyway, so I don't see Yahuweh asking them the impossible.
While it was not commanded to gather on the 7th day Shabbaths in the 10 Commandments it was defiantly commanded for us to gather together on the Shabbawths every 7th Day in Leviticus chapter 23:1-3. The 7th Day Shabbawths are defiantly a part of Yahuwah’ Appointed Times. (See: Amplified English translation by below)

1-2 YAHUWEH (YHWH) SPOKE THESE WORDS (dabar - communicated) to (‘el) Moseh (moseh - one who draws out), saying (‘amar - answering and promising, intending), ‘Speak the Word to (dabar - communicated with) the Children (ben) of Yisra’el (yisra’el - from ‘ys sarah and ‘el, those who strive and struggle with, those who persist and endure with, those who persevere with and are empowered by God), and say (‘amar - call out, declare, and promise that) these Godly (‘el-leh) APPOINTED MEETING TIMES (mow’ed - fixed assembly betrothal appointments which focus on the specific purpose designated by the Authority) of Yahuweh, these related (‘asher) SET-APART (qodesh) ASSEMBLIES OF THE CALLED OUT (miqra’ey - the calling together; from qara’, to call out, to read, and recite), shall be proclaimed (qara’ - called out, read aloud, and recited) IN RELATIONSHIP TO (‘asher) THEIR APPOINTED MEETING TIMES (mow’ed - their fixed betrothal appointments where the assembly focuses on the specific purpose which was designated by the Authority).’ 3Six (ses) days (yowmym) the service of the spiritual messenger (mala’kah) shall be performed (‘asah - accomplished), so then (wa) IN (ba) THE (ha) SEVENTH (shaby’y) DAY (yowm) WILL BE A SABBATH (shabat - time of rest and reflection), A SET-APART (qodesh) CALLED-OUT ASSEMBLY (miqra’) for rest and reflection (shabatown). All (kol) service of the heavenly messenger (mala’kah) shall not (lo’) be done (‘asah - performed). It is Yahuweh’s Sabbath (shabat - time for rest and reflection) in (ba) all (kol) your (‘atem) dwelling places and throughout time (mosab - wherever and whenever you assemble).
Disregarding some of the more, erm, "interesting" translations of Hebrew words here, I will admit that I have made a blunder in the blog post regarding the gathering together of people. I shall fix this soonish :)

( Edit: Also, when you do edit a post, do what I've done here and stick "Edit:" at the start of the edit, so that people who read you initial post know that you've added something extra that they may need to read :) )
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Re: Acts 20:7: The First Day of the Week, or a Sabbath?

Postby willbrinsonferguson » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:58 pm

Swalchy,

I tried to find where I had gotten the Text from so that I could give the source name (as the PDF did not give the name of the translation), but I could not find where I had found it yesterday. If you know where it can be found please add the URL to this post for others edification. Personaly I used this translation because I though that y'all where the ones putting it out and would be familar with it. Again I do not remember just where I downloaded it from nor did I know the correct name of it. I remembered something about it saying it was the "Amplified Eglish Version", but that was all I could remember. I would if I could have. I did give the Book and verse so that they could check out what I was saying in what ever Version they wished to check out my point within.

Also I had never been told before what double posting was until now. I will remember and keep from it in the future. Thanks for the heads up.

Out of curiousity which words where you speaking of?
Disregarding some of the more, erm, "interesting" translations of Hebrew words


As far as the males having to be in Yerushalayim I was told by others that this is what was required and I never could find it myself either. Was hoping you knew of the verse where they got it from. I found the one verse where it says that they are to gather (Deu 16:16 Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before Yahuwah thy Ailoheem in the place which He shall choose; in the Feast of Unleavened-Bread, and in the Feast of Weeks, and in the Feast of Tabernacles). I will try to see if I can find out just where these other people that told me got it from (if as you put it if it really does).
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YHWH bless thee and keep thee;
YHWH cause His face to shine on thee, and be gracious to thee;
YHWH lift up His face to thee, and give thee shalom.


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Re: Acts 20:7: The First Day of the Week, or a Sabbath?

Postby Swalchy » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:51 pm

Swalchy,

I tried to find where I had gotten the Text from so that I could give the source name (as the PDF did not give the name of the translation), but I could not find where I had found it yesterday. If you know where it can be found please add the URL to this post for others edification. Personaly I used this translation because I though that y'all where the ones putting it out and would be familar with it. Again I do not remember just where I downloaded it from nor did I know the correct name of it. I remembered something about it saying it was the "Amplified Eglish Version", but that was all I could remember. I would if I could have. I did give the Book and verse so that they could check out what I was saying in what ever Version they wished to check out my point within.
You'd be correct in thinking we'd be familiar with it (I noticed it straight away). However, I do not care for Craig Winn, his translation, nor his large, personal commentary on the books of Scripture. Having seen that he translates it to fuel his own agenda, I'd rather read the ESV or NJB compared to his.
Also I had never been told before what double posting was until now. I will remember and keep from it in the future. Thanks for the heads up.
No worries, Will. Many forums allow double-posting, but as I don't have all that much money to pay for a webhost, I only get so much bandwidth and space, and if people were double/triple/quadruple posting all the time, I would be out of pocket more often than not :)
Out of curiousity which words where you speaking of?
Well, for some reason, CW has translated the Hebrew אָלָה/'el-eh as these Godly, which isn't a meaning of the word at all. No Hebrew dictionary or lexicon shows this to be a viable translation of the word. He's therefore made this translation up. It means some form of the word "these", whether it be used in the singular ("this") or plural ("they"). Where "godly" materialises from can only be from CW's brain.

And then we come to the Hebrew מִקְרָא/miqra', which CW translates as either "assemblies of the called-out" or "called-out assembly". This isn't a proper translation of the word either. But as one of CW's theological imaginations is that the Hebrew מִקְרָא/miqra' is equivalent to the Greek εκκλησια/ekklesia, he has to include the words "called-out" in his "translation" of the word מִקְרָא/miqra', despite מִקְרָא/miqra' not meaning "called-out".

Again, he has forced his own eisegetic translation into the text, and anyone reading his translation (and especially his commentary), would be deluded into thinking that Miqra' and Ekklesia were synonymous. They're not, and people would know that if they actually checked his work.

Alas, few people seem to actually bother to do that, as most have just changed one Pastor with another.

The Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament is my main source for Hebrew, as is the Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew Lexicon.
As far as the males having to be in Yerushalayim I was told by others that this is what was required and I never could find it myself either. Was hoping you knew of the verse where they got it from. I found the one verse where it says that they are to gather (Deu 16:16 Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before Yahuwah thy Ailoheem in the place which He shall choose; in the Feast of Unleavened-Bread, and in the Feast of Weeks, and in the Feast of Tabernacles). I will try to see if I can find out just where these other people that told me got it from (if as you put it if it really does).
I also found a similar thing to this in Exodus 23:14-17, with it ending in "Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the upright Yahuweh."

However, it doesn't appear to have a specific place mentioned. So as far as I'm concerned, one can "appear before Yahuweh" any time they wished. Just that they had to make sure that they most certainly celebrated the feasts of Unleavened Bread, Firstfruits, and Tabernacles wherever they were.

I did see this curious thing in Numbers 9:6-13:

And there were certain men who were funclean through touching a dead body, so that they could not keep the Passover on that day, and they came before Moses and Aaron on that day. And those men said to him, “We are unclean through touching a dead body. Why are we kept from bringing Yahuweh's offering at its appointed time among the people of Israel?” And Moses said to them, “Wait, that I may hear what Yahuweh will command concerning you.” Yahuweh spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the people of Israel, saying, 'If any one of you or of your descendants is unclean through touching a dead body, or is on a long journey, he shall still keep the Passover to Yahuweh. In the second month on the fourteenth day at twilight they shall keep it. They shall eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs. They shall leave none of it until the morning, nor break any of its bones; according to all the statute for the Passover they shall keep it. But if anyone who is clean and is not on a journey fails to keep the Passover, that person shall be cut off from his people because he did not bring Yahuweh's offering at its appointed time; that man shall bear his sin. (ESV, with Yahuweh's name restored)

So one has to assume that being on a journey (as Paul and his companions were (who were in fact returning to Jerusalem anyway (Acts 20:16))), that there has to be some lee-way for people. Especially in that day and age.

Also, what if someone was travelling to the feasts, was attacked and left half-dead by thieves? Would he be "cut off from his people" for being immobilised? I don't presume Yahuweh to be so cruel, nor for it to be as cut and dry as people want us to think. Especially as we actually can't follow this instruction any more. No Temple or Levite to officially offer up the offering.
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Re: Acts 20:7: The First Day of the Week, or a Sabbath?

Postby willbrinsonferguson » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:23 pm

Swalchy,
I had just found the CW's YY translation yesterday. I was actually looking for something else and stumbled upon the Yada Yahweh Forum. The forum had a link to this one in a post to where I kinda though that perhaps y'all might had though goodly of it. I know that they spoke highly of you. But I see that this is not mutual as to their taste in translations. I think from your testamony of the CW's YY translation I should throw it out and use other versions from now on. That was the first time I ever used the translation and will be the last.

I do not like using poor translations but I can not read the Herbrew, Aramaic, or Greek to know which is the better translation in English. I must therefore trust others at this point as to which is better and which is bad.

I do have the e-Sword program but the Interlinears Text can not be concidered acurrate, as many words do not have Strong'# beside them. I can get an idea but still must realy trust others for what is actually there. I have come to see that most translations are not accurate, as they like to interject things here and there at they fancy, changing the meaning of the text to suite their way of thinking. I like the Peshitta as a source text for the NT and know a guy that is honestly trying to word for word translate what is said without following after other translations added stuff (such as: and these three agree in heaven, etc...).
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YHWH bless thee and keep thee;
YHWH cause His face to shine on thee, and be gracious to thee;
YHWH lift up His face to thee, and give thee shalom.


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Re: Acts 20:7: The First Day of the Week, or a Sabbath?

Postby Rob » Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:12 am

In the interest of openness:

We parted from the YN forums some time ago - I think actually about a year ago, not of our own doing but via a quite random forum ban due to a disagreement on Paul and his supposed letter to the Galatians.

Swalchy, by the request of Craig, was helping look into the Greek, and discovered some things but by the time he got to write a detailed study on them Craig had made his stance. (see here: http://www.thewaytoyahuweh.com/research ... -galatians" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )

No attempt has been made to show any errors Swalchy has made - but a few attempts to belittle his understanding or disregard the document have.

Swalchy apologised for any wrong doings (of which there were none and all claims against him were fabricated and taken out of context) and was unbanned. As for me I was banned I think for knowing Swalchy in real life, and that is all I can say that I was banned for, I got no explanation at all. I have since recently been unbanned as I refused to apologise for something that wasn't being explained to me.

Anyway we no longer post in the forums but are in contact with a few members - and that is the short of it :)

Oh and we have no beef with the forum or it's members, but we certainly do with Craig's research, especially since he slide off the rails with Paul.

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Re: Acts 20:7: The First Day of the Week, or a Sabbath?

Postby willbrinsonferguson » Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:21 am

Rob,

I will have to read the article on this subject of Galations, I am not familar with it.

Other than that what do you think of the Yadah Yahweh Version? The Scriptures say to prove all things with two or more witnesses. Swalchy so far thinks it is not the best translation out there, that's one witness so far.


(EDIT) Swalchy,

I have found a couple of text mentioning Yishra-Ail gathering in Yerushalayim for Feast.
(THE SCRIPTURES 1998)
2Ki_23:23 But in the eighteenth year of king Josiah, in which this passover was kept to the LORD in Jerusalem.

2Ch 30:1 And Ḥizqiyahu sent to all Yisra’ĕl and Yehuḏah, and he also wrote letters to Ephrayim and Menashsheh, to come to the House of יהוה at Yerushalayim, to perform the Passover to יהוה Elohim of Yisra’ĕl.
2Ch 30:2 But the sovereign and his leaders and all the assembly in Yerushalayim had taken counsel to perform the Passover in the second month.
2Ch 30:3 For they were unable to perform it at its time, because not enough priests had set themselves apart, and the people had not gathered at Yerushalayim.
2Ch 30:4 And the matter was right in the eyes of the sovereign and in the eyes of all the assembly.
2Ch_30:5 So they established a decree to make proclamation throughout all Israel, from Beer-sheba even to Dan, that they should come to keep the passover unto the LORD God of Israel at Jerusalem: for they had not done it for a long time in the way in which it was written.

But before that they had keep it in different places:
Num_9:5 And they kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the first month at evening in the wilderness of Sinai: according to all that the LORD commanded Moses, so did the children of Israel.

Jos_5:10 And the children of Israel encamped in Gilgal, and kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the month at evening in the plains of Jericho.

Not to mention the first time they keep it in Egypt, but

they seemed to afterward keep it in Yerushalayim:
2Ki_23:21 And the king commanded all the people, saying, Keep the passover unto the LORD your God, as it is written in the book of this covenant.
2Ki_23:22 Surely there was not held such a passover from the days of the judges that judged Israel, nor in all the days of the kings of Israel, nor of the kings of Judah;
2Ki_23:23 But in the eighteenth year of king Josiah, in which this passover was kept to the LORD in Jerusalem.

2Ch_35:18 And there was no passover like that kept in Israel from the days of Samuel the prophet; neither did all the kings of Israel keep such a passover as Josiah kept, and the priests, and the Levites, and all Judah and Israel that were present, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

I asked a practicing Rabbi and he only gave me the verse saying three times a year the males must gather for the reasoning that they should go to Yerushalayim. I am asking him back if that is it because it speaks nothing of Yerushalayim. I'll be back if I can get further reasoning from him.
May,
YHWH bless thee and keep thee;
YHWH cause His face to shine on thee, and be gracious to thee;
YHWH lift up His face to thee, and give thee shalom.


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Re: Acts 20:7: The First Day of the Week, or a Sabbath?

Postby Rob » Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:31 am

Hi Will,

Unfortunately I am not equipped linguistically enough to look into the translations Craig has made of the Hebrew myself - but I do rely on the opinions and translations of a few friends, some of which are a Jewish family living in Israel with at least 1 very good Hebrew speaking daughter, with Scriptural Hebrew experience (she is a bit of a language genius). These people have flagged translations of words that they don't agree with in the past and have offered explanation.

I think the thing to remember is we are all human really, Hebrew is a rich and beautiful language that has layers of meanings. Craig's translation, although in places flawed, I would say is more because of him being human than loaded with agenda, and I know he would admit this (well I used to know). The only full real agenda I can see in him is his anti Paul stuff, on the Hebrew I can see him trying his best.

No one holds the perfect translation - this isn't to say we can't learn the true meaning, but more a reflection on the fact that we are to keep seeking to keep finding... No one will know it all, but we have to absorb and process as much as we can find.

At the end of the day it is not to sit and point the finger or try and find one person who is right - because they don't exist. Best to be in a state of flux, where our ideas, thoughts, beliefs and what you know can be tweaked, removed or changed - otherwise the trap of religion swallows us up.

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Re: Acts 20:7: The First Day of the Week, or a Sabbath?

Postby willbrinsonferguson » Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:53 am

Thanks Rob, I guess I will keep the trans lation for study purposes.

Swalchy, the Rabbi source that I asked came back with:


The understanding is that Yerushalayim is the place that YHWH has chosen to place His Name.

Rabbi Eliezer Zalmanov
for "Ask the Rabbi" @ Chabad.org

Below are verse of Scripture where we are commanded to bring our sacrifices where Yahuwah placed His Name:

Deu 12:5 but seek the place which Yahuwah your Aioheem chooses, out of all your tribes, to put His Name there, for His Dwelling Place, and there you shall enter.
Deu 12:6 “And there you shall take your burnt offerings, and your offerings, and your tithes, and the contributions of your hand, and your vowed offerings, and your voluntary offerings, and the firstlings of your herd and of your flock.
Deu 12:7 “And there you shall eat before Yahuwah your Ailoheem, and shall rejoice in all that you put your hand to, you and your households, in which Yahuwah your Ailoheem has blessed you.

Deu 12:10 “But you shall pass over the Yardĕn, and shall dwell in the land which Yahuwah your Ailoheem is giving you to inherit, and He shall give you rest from all your enemies round about, and you shall dwell in safety.
Deu 12:11 “And it shall be, that unto the place which Yahuwah your Ailoheem chooses to make His Name dwell there, there you are to bring all that I command you: your burnt offerings, and your offerings, and your tithes, and the contributions of your hand, and all your choice offerings which you vow to Yahuwah.

Deu 12:13 “Guard yourself that you do not offer your burnt offerings in every place that you see,
Deu 12:14 except in the place which Yahuwah chooses, in one of your tribes, there you are to offer your burnt offerings, and there you are to do all that I command you.

Deu 12:17 “You are not allowed to eat within your gates the tithe of your grain, or of your new wine, or of your oil, or of the firstlings of your herd or your flock, or of any of your offerings which you vow, or of your voluntary offerings, or of the contribution of your hand.
Deu 12:18 “But eat them before Yahuwah your Ailoheem, in the place which Yahuwah your Ailoheem chooses, you and your son and your daughter, and your male servant and your female servant, and the Lĕwite who is within your gates. And you shall rejoice before Yahuwah your Ailoheem in all that you put your hands to.

Deu 26:1 “And it shall be, when you come into the land which Yahuwah your Ailoheem is giving you as an inheritance, and you possess it and dwell in it,
Deu 26:2 that you shall take some of the first of all the fruits of the soil which you bring from your land that Yahuwah your Ailoheem is giving you, and shall put it in a basket and go to the place where Yahuwah your Ailoheem chooses to make His Name dwell there.
Deu 26:3 “And you shall come to the one who is priest in those days, and say to him, ‘I shall declare today to Yahuwah your Ailoheem that I have come to the land which Yahuwah swore to our fathers to give us.’

These are verses about the Passover Feastival:

Deu 16:2 “And you shall slaughter the Passover to Yahuwah your Ailoheem, from the flock and the herd, in the place where Yahuwah chooses to put His Name.
Deu 16:6 but at the place where Yahuwah your Ailoheem chooses to make His Name dwell, there you slaughter the Passover in the evening, at the going down of the sun, at the appointed time you came out of Mitsrayim.
Deu 16:5 “You are not allowed to slaughter the Passover within any of your gates which Yahuwah your Ailoheem gives you,
Deu 16:6 but at the place where Yahuwah your Ailoheem chooses to make His Name dwell, there you slaughter the Passover in the evening, at the going down of the sun, at the appointed time you came out of Mitsrayim.

The following are verses that show Yahuwah had placed His Name in Yerushalayim:

1Ki 5:5 “And see, I intend to build a house for the Name of Yahuwah my Ailoheem, as Yahuwah spoke to my father Dawiḏ, saying, ‘Your son, whom I set on your throne in your place, he does build the house for My Name.

1Ki 8:20 “Now Yahuwah has established His word which He spoke, and I have been raised up instead of my father Dawiḏ, and sit on the throne of Yisra-Ail, as Yahuwah promised, and built a house for the Name of Yahuwah Ailoheem of Yishra-Ail,

1Ki 8:29 “For Your eyes to be open toward this House night and day, toward the place of which You said, ‘My Name is there,’ to listen to the prayer which Your servant makes toward this place.

2Ch 6:10 “Now Yahuwah has established His word which He spoke, and I have been raised up instead of my father Dawiḏ, and sit on the throne of Yisra-Ail, as Yahuwah promised. And I have built the House for the Name of Yahuwah Ailoheem of Yisra-Ail.

The following are verses that show Yahuwah had placed His Name else where:

Jer 7:12 “But go now to My place at Shiloh, where I set My Name at the first, and see what I did to it because of the evil of My people Yisra-Ail.

Below are verses giving exceptions to where we are allowed to do so elsewhere:

Deu 12:21 “When the place where Yahuwah your Ailoheem chooses to put His Name is too far from you, then you shall slaughter from your herd and from your flock which Yahuwah has given you, as I have commanded you, and you shall eat within your gates as much as your being desires.

Below are verses about tithing:

Deu 14:23 “And you shall eat before Yahuwah your Ailoheem, in the place where He chooses to make His Name dwell, the tithe of your grain and your new wine and your oil, and of the firstlings of your herds and your sheep, so that you learn to fear Yahuwah your Ailoheem always.
Deu 14:24 “But when the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to bring the tithe, or when the place where Yahuwah your Ailoheem chooses to put His Name is too far from you, when Yahuwah your Ailoheem is blessing you,
Deu 14:25 then you shall give it in silver, and shall take the silver in your hand and go to the place which Yahuwah your Ailoheem chooses.

So Yahuwah expected the Yahu-Deem to go to Yerushalayim at least during the the temple priod, But I got to thinking how the Vail was torn - the temple is gone - and Yahu-Shuah is in the Heavenly Temple interceeding for us now - plus Yahuwah is now avaible to use all through Yahu-Shuah (Who is not in the temple of Yerushalayim but the Heavenly Temple). Yahuwah can not still meet us in the earthly temple because it is gone. He left it and now meets us in His Heavenly Temple through Yahu-Shuah (in the Spirit). The point that I am making is after this study I agree with you now that we can keep the Feast (except within our own gates) where ever people gather to praise Yahuwah. The Yahu-Deem do not see it this way because they have rejected the Anointed One as having being already having come and gone back to the right hand of His Father. And yes we should seek the wisdom of Yahuwah not that of the Yahu-Deem. Awmane.
Last edited by willbrinsonferguson on Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
May,
YHWH bless thee and keep thee;
YHWH cause His face to shine on thee, and be gracious to thee;
YHWH lift up His face to thee, and give thee shalom.


Your brother in Y'hoshuah The Anointed One.

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Re: Acts 20:7: The First Day of the Week, or a Sabbath?

Postby Swalchy » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:15 am

Excellent, thanks for the list of verses (especially the Deut 12:21 one) regarding this :)
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Re: Acts 20:7: The First Day of the Week, or a Sabbath?

Postby WilliamPriebe » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:36 pm

* Consider where Jean Calvin’s ‘COMMENTARY UPON THE ACTS OF THE APOSTLES’ reads;
Acts 20:7
“And upon one day of the Sabbaths, when the disciples were come together to break bread, Paul disputed with them, being about to take his journey on the morrow; and he prolonged his speech until midnight.”

“ And in one day. Either doth he mean the first day of the week, which was next after the Sabbath, or else some certain Sabbath. Which latter thing may seem to me more probable; for this cause, because that day was more fit for all assembly, according to custom.” (All quotes end)
See Online at;
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom37.viii.ii.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
THE CALVIN TRANSLATION SOCIETY 1843.

* Consider also where William Tyndale’s ‘first’ edition (1526) shows on a ”saboth day” for the Apostle’s breaking of bread in Acts 20:7. See online at;
http://faithofgod.net/WTNT/acts_20.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

See the word “saboth day” in 1 COR 16:2 when the monies were already prepared for collection.
See online at;
http://faithofgod.net/WTNT/1_corinthians_16.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
or THE NEW TESTAMENT 1526 – The British Library 2000

* A fairly accurate online linear New Testament can be seen at;
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There you will see the phrase "on one of the sabbaths" for the breaking of bread, the collection of monies being already prepared, and for the resurrection day as described in all of the Gospel passages.

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Last edited by WilliamPriebe on Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:29 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Acts 20:7: The First Day of the Week, or a Sabbath?

Postby WilliamPriebe » Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:44 pm

* Here are some quoted passages from Miles Coverdale's 1535 Bible;

Acts 20:7
”Vpon one of the Sabbathes , whan the disciples came together to breake bred, Paul preached vnto them, wyllinge to departe on the morow, and contynued the preachinge vnto mydnight.”

1 Corinthians 16:2
”Vpon some Sabbath daye let euery one of you put aside by him selfe, and laye vp what so euer he thinketh mete, that the collection be not to gather whan I come.”

The Bible / that is, the holy Scripture of the Olde and New Testament, faithfully and truly translated out of Douche and Latyn into Englishe. MDXXXV by Miles Coverdale. Published by; A Ministry of The Bible Reader’s Museum.

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Re: Acts 20:7: The First Day of the Week, or a Sabbath?

Postby Swalchy » Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:54 am

Hi Will - I couldn't quite see a point in your current posts. Would you care to elaborate a bit as to what's being said?
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Re: Acts 20:7: The First Day of the Week, or a Sabbath?

Postby WilliamPriebe » Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:55 pm

Hello Stephen,

The underlying transliterated Greek phrase of ‘mia twn sabbatwn’ behind ACTS 20:7, 1 COR 16:2, MTH 28:1, MRK 16:2, LUK 24:1, JHN 20:1, 19 has been translated variously as; ‘one of the sabbaths’, ‘first of the sabbaths’, ‘the first day of the week’, 'the First day Shabath of unleaven Bread', or as ‘Day One of Weeks and Shabbats’. These various phrases have been (1) interpreted linguistically through the laws of Syntax and Grammar (2) and/or have been interpreted through exegesis based on logical thought of sound or shear reasoning (3) and/or have been based on intentional manipulation of scriptural passages for mass control by past precedented religion authorities.
I am deeply under the impression that the majority of Bible Translators have abetted to the wide stream principals of Christian acceptability based on man-made traditionalism being long established through most church doctrine.

- William

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Re: Acts 20:7: The First Day of the Week, or a Sabbath?

Postby WilliamPriebe » Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:49 pm

Hello Stephen,
On the point of translating from exegesis alone how do you account for the resurrection event ocurring three days after the crucifixion?

MattithYah 27:62, 63
“But nevertheless, the next day, which is and exists as the day after the Preparation day of Friday, the high and chief priests and the Pharisees were gathered and drawn, collected and assembled, brought and joined together towards and to the advantage of Pilate, saying and teaching, maintaining and affirming, directing and exhorting, advising and pointing out, “Sovereign Lord, we remember, recall and are reminded that concerning this, that certain specific deceiver, impostor and corruptor who led and seduced people to err and make mistakes had said whilst He was still alive and living, ‘After three days, I Am to be raised and lifted up, awakened and restored back to life from death.”
- Quoted from Version 1 / The Way to Yahuweh


Marcus 8:31
“…and to also be killed and eliminated, slayed and put to death, having His soul separated from His body, but to be raised and lifted up, awakened and restored after three days.”
- Quoted from Version 1 / The Way to Yahuweh


Yahuchanon 19:31
“Then and therefore, accordingly, consequently and these things being so, since and seeing as though it was and existed as Friday, so that, in order that and with the result that the bodies and corpses would not remain or abide, endure or live on, last or persist, stay or continue on, dwell or lodge upon the upright pole and stake* in, by and on the day of rest, the Shabbat, for the reason that the day and time period of that certain specific day of rest, that Shabbat, was and existed as great and mighty, powerful and strong, intense and outstanding…”
- Quoted from Version 1 / The Way to Yahuweh



MattithYah 28:1
“And then, at the end of and after the Shabbat, the day of rest, at the dawning and beginning of Day One of Weeks and Shabbats*, Miriam of Migdalah and the other and different Miriam came, arose and appeared to watch and look at, understand and perceive, notice and behold, attentively view and see, ascertain and know, discover and recognise, contemplate and consider the sepulchre and tomb, grave and burial place.”
- Quoted from Version 1 / The Way to Yahuweh

- William


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