stuck on circumcision...

[danshelper]

Brothers,
Thank you all for your pursuit of righteousness, which is such an encouraging example. Although this particular issue does not affect me as it does you, trust in and reliYAHnce on our Savior concerns us all. Don’t you think that it shows a greater trust and dependence on Yahushua to NOT be physically circumcised? Doesn’t it more emphatically demonstrate that a person is placing ALL his trust in Yahushua – if he does not choose to be physically circumcised after he has already, through Yahushua, been spiritually circumcised?

When we are “baptized into His death” and given new spiritual life (born again), we consider ourselves having died with Him. We consider that all our sins (past, present, future) were imputed to Him – to the extent that we ourselves (our physical, sinful bodies) were crucified with Him. Wouldn’t it then be like circumcising dead flesh to go ahead and be physically circumcised? The Spirit gives life – this is the true life (John 10:10; 11:25) – the flesh (the physical life) profits nothing.

Doesn’t it more clearly demonstrate a lack of the true circumcision, when we succumb to excoriating and slandering others and shouldn’t this be of greater concern to us? We can and will disagree on points of physical Torah because we are all on different stages of the knowledge journey. But these disagreements should never end up in the lawlessness of violating the “royal law” (Matthew 7:12; 22:40, James 2:8). If they do, we should question whether our hearts have truly been circumcised.

Brother tagim – we who are older know a bit better how useless our physical bodies are because we are closer to shrugging them off! So, as we are trusting in the “temple made without hands” (Mark 14:58), the spiritual body of Yahushua, the circumcision done without hands is our trust, joy and imperishable inheritance. Yahushua alone is our boast.

[Rob]

Hey Nice input as always!!!

I wanna shoot from the other side of the fence for a min and say, for most who are "pro snip" I don't think it's about relying on the snip to be saved, I think it is more an act of obedience from a position of love. Yah says jump, so we should jump - right?

I think my main issue with it is more who is He asking. I think the obedience thing is right, and the reasoning for doing it - but I kinda get the feeling it's a little too gung ho, "He said it we must do it", which again is the right attitude but kinda negates any thought about who is being asked and for what reason.

So for not wanting to go over again what I have written in this thread, yea - I think people need to stop and think first, because like I said I don't think it is as simple as being "snipped", I think you let yourself in for a whole world of responsibility...

[Juski]

Very wise words from Dan's Helper, as always. Really echoes how I feel - its our attitude to others and our response when someone thinks something different to us that marks as out as truly circumcised. On a totally unrelated issue, when we were kicked out of church we were commended for our integrity - we could have been outspoken, aggressive, caused a whole heap of upset, but we dealt with the problem with maturity and love (mostly!). The circumcision debate has been ragging since the first generation of believers, and its a really difficult one to find the answers to, but respecting each others views and working together to find the answers is essential. I've really enjoyed the peaceful and loving discussion that we've had here, it's been really useful