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Numbers 13:16. Moshay changes the name הושע to יהושע

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Numbers 13:16. Moshay changes the name הושע to יהושע

Postby willbrinsonferguson » Thu May 10, 2012 5:57 am

Below is part of an email that I had receive from a freind. It adresses the Hebrew Name of The Anointed One as prophesied in Zekhar-YaHu[Zechariah] 6:9-13. Most scholars will tell you that "The Branch" is a prophetic reference to the coming Moshiach who would be our Eternal Priest and King. See: Yesha-YaHu[Isaiah] 11:1-7, Yirmee-YaHu[Jeremiah] 23:5 and 33:15-16.

I have only posted part of the email here (but have left it intacked as an attached [see Attachment] in hopes to share all the knowledge and wisdom found therein).


"Shlama akhi,

The original name of יהושע Joshua / Y’hoshua was הושע HOSHEYA / Hosea / Hoshea / Oshea. The “Oshea” pronunciation is simply the inconsistency of the older English translations in the realm of transliterating proper names. It is no different than Hosea / Hoshea, so there is no attention necessary to be paid towards the variant of “Oshea.” For example, like how “herb” can be pronounced phonetically as HURB or else by dropping the initial H sound and yielding ERB. Same thing. WHY English does this, I can’t say, but apparently it was at work even back in 1611 when the translators of the KJV did their version…. So the variant reading in English of OSHEA is really wrong – it should read HOSHEA – it is the same in the Hebrew, but different in some English translations which are not consistent in transliterating proper names (a situation when you had more than one translator at work on the same Bible).

Ok, so in this name lay the root word of ישע YASHA / YESHA – “rescue / save / deliver.” The root is definitely ישע YASHA / YESHA – not ישועה YESHUAH. Rather, YESHUAH would be an extension of the root ישע YASHA / YESHA. YESHUAH itself is built off of the YASHA / YESHA root, but it is grammatically feminine in that the “help / aid / rescue” promoted in it is of a “kindness / compassionate” nature, which in Hebrew tends to be written in a feminine gender in a word – it doesn’t make anything “girly” about it, just is done to show the “softer” edge of the term. There are other languages that are gender-specific, such as Spanish, where you will find the same types of subtle differences in terms that are otherwise identical in meaning. But of course, any gender-specific word can only have one root no matter if it were an alien language with “four genders,” right? We can return to this matter at a later date, though, because this is how we can eventually arrive at a correct pronunciation of The Anointed One' Name, when we understand the root and what was happening. But for now, let’s continue on the same topic.

So continuing on, you can see the root ישע YASHA / YESHA in the name הושע HOSHAYAH. Due to the grammatical aspect of Hebrew, instead of it being spelled הישע it has the letter Yud יmorphed into a Waw ו for the end result of הושע HOSHAYAH. The letter Heh ה in the beginning of the name is due to the grammatical tensing of the verb into what is called Hophil which denotes a causal verb where a third party has caused an action to happen to the subject. The idea of the name HOSHAYAH is thus “HE SAVED / RESCUED.”

Put simply, Joshua’ parents could have named him ישע YASHA / YESHA (I keep placing these together because they are the same word and idea, just sometimes pronounced slightly differently), but they chose to tense the idea of “rescue / save” into a “what has been done to him” kind of thing, and that required placing the letter Heh ה in the beginning of the name, resulting in הושע HOSHAYAH.

So as you can see, the letter Waw ו in his name exists only because of the addition of the letter Heh ה at the beginning of his name due to how the name fits verb tense in Hebrew grammar. Otherwise it would have been a letter Yud י as it is part of the root ישע YASHA / YESHA.

Okay, so then we have Moshay come along and CHANGE the name of Joshua / Hoshayah into a new grammatical inflection: the form of יהושע Y’HOSHUAH. This change came about by Moshay adding the letter Yud י to the beginning of the man’s name = יהושע . What this did is effectively change the tense of the name yet again, into Hiphil tense, meaning the subject is causing an action to happen (He Shall Save / Rescue). In this instance, Y’hoshuah the man is about to be going into the land of Canaan, and it will be HIS actions that lead to the “saving” that takes place. Albeit, the actual saving doesn’t take place until a generation later, it is his own actions of faith that bring about his and the people’ eventual entrance into the land after wandering for so long.

What we have, therefore, is the root of ישע YASHA / YESHA (save / rescue) buried in a twice grammatically inflected verb-turned-proper-name: יהושע = Y’HOSHUA .

The end result, therefore, shows that the “Trigrammaton” of the Divine Name YAHU יהו is actually present ONLY in appearance, and not in intention. This can be seen furthermore if one was to remove the transformation of the Yud י into the Waw ו in the name, and “pretend” that aspect of Hebrew syntax didn’t exist, and render it instead as it would appear in the root of ישע YASHA / YESHA, to yield a result of יהישע . As you can see, that would effectively “erase” the Divine Name of YAHU יהו from Y’hoshuah’ name, since it would become יהי . This is not the the Short Form of the Divine Name. Keep in mind also that the letter Heh ה is there only due to the inflection of Joshua’ original name that I explained about above, which was also not originally meant to signify the Divine Name in any way.

Okay, let me pause here and return the first proof. I am going to paste it here but place the Hebrew in it so you can really see what I was talking about. This should help some before we move on, if there is any confusion remaining.

The י to ו YUD-to-WAW is essential to the root word of ישע YASHA / YESHA "Rescue." Without it remaining in place the root falls apart. So IF the YUD-HEH-WAW = YAHU יהו presence signified actually the Name YAHU, then the root of YESHA is destroyed, since the WAW would in effect be confiscated for use in the Short Form of the Divine Name. I’ve broken the name apart to show what would be happening if the Divine Name were really supposed to be part of this name. This helps show how the root word would be broken up if the Divine Name truly was present: יהו + שע

See that IF the Divine Name were present, it would be “stealing” part of the root of ישע YESHA for itself, which NEVER happens in Hebrew grammar and would in effect rob the root word of it' meaning.

The result would leave שע SHUA as the root - meaning "a cry for help" or "riches / valuables." Taken in this way, YAHUSHUA would then mean "YAHU cries for help / YAHU has riches." See how it completely changes the meaning if the root word dissolves? furthermore, since the Waw ו OO sound really only arises in the personal name pronunciation of Y'hoshua, and is not part of the root ישע YESHA, then advocating for SHUA disintegrates at that point, and one would be left with just SHA - a sound and not a word in Hebrew = leaving YAHU-SHA, which would effectively be bringing His Name to nothing while trying to say His Name. [ as you note, the U in SHUAH is indeed implied, but only because of the presence of the root YASHA, and if that dissolves, then so too does the OO in the latter part of the name. If the root changes, and the root determines what is “implied,” then it can no longer be implied.

So to close with this first proof, it should be noted that in Hebrew, a letter from one root CANNOT be shared with another root. In other words, it wouldn't be acceptable in Hebrew for the Divine Name YAHU to borrow a letter from YESHA and still let the root meaning of YESHA stand. It just can't happen in Hebrew grammar.

Chayim b'Moshiach,
Jeremy"

Please take the time to read the ATTACHMENT, as it not only COLOR CODE to help show what it is saying but it goes on to show EVEN MORE PROOF upon this matter.
May,
YHWH bless thee and keep thee;
YHWH cause His face to shine on thee, and be gracious to thee;
YHWH lift up His face to thee, and give thee shalom.


Your brother in Y'hoshuah The Anointed One.

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Re: Numbers 13:16. Moshay changes the name הושע to יהושע

Postby Royce » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:39 pm

How do you get shua from Shin Ayin? wouldnt there need to be a waw between the shin and ayin? Shin ayin is simply sha which makes the Messiahs name Yahusha (Yah delivers)

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Re: Numbers 13:16. Moshay changes the name הושע to יהושע

Postby Swalchy » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:47 pm

I can actually confirm that, contrary to popular opinion, the full name of the Messiah (and therefore of Joshua) is most certainly Yod-Hey-Vav-Shin-Vav-Ayin - "Yahuwshuwa" contra to Yahusha'. This is based on discovering, in the dead sea scrolls manuscripts four different ways of spelling the name out in Hebrew (there is a fifth one, but it only occurs in the later books (Nehemiah, Ezra and Daniel) in the Masoretic, of which there aren't many manuscripts of among the DSS, and the ones we do have aren't substantial):

Full form: יהושוע - Yod, Hey, Vav, Shin, Vav, Ayin
Evidenced in the Dead Sea scrolls: Deuteronomy 3:21 (4Q40Deutm); Joshua 6:10, 8:3, 8:35 & 10:4 (4Q47Josha)

Second form: יהושע - Yod, Hey, Vav, Shin, Ayin
Evidenced in the Dead Sea Scrolls: Exodus 17:13 & 14 (4Q14 Exodusc); Numbers 32:28 (4Q23 Levi-Numa); Deuteronomy 31:21 & 28 (4Q31Deutd); Joshua 4:1 (twice - 4Q48Joshb), 6:6 (4Q47Josha), 17:4, 14, 15 (4Q48Joshb); Haggai 1:1 (4Q77MinProb), 1:14 & 2:4 (MurXII & 4Q77MinProb).

Third form (previously unknown before DSS discovery): יהשוע - Yod, Hey, Shin, Vav, Ayin (Yahshua)
Evidenced in the Dead Sea Scrolls: Exodus 17:9, 13, 32:17 (4Q22paleoEx); Numbers 26:65, 27:22 (4Q27Numb); Zechariah 3:9 (4Q80e)

Fourth form (previously unknown before DSS discovery): יהשע - Yod, Hey, Shin, Ayin
Evidenced in the Dead Sea Scrolls: Joshua 5:2, 3, 8:35 (4Q47Josha)

As can be seen, it doesn't matter which form it is, but the letter Vav - ו - can be dropped from a name. This also occurs in many other Hebrew words, where in the Masoretic there isn't a Vav letter, but instead it has the vowel-pointing, but in the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Vav letter is there instead.

I am working on a document that goes through this in more detail, using actual transcriptions of the Dead Sea Scrolls to explain it better than I can do in this post itself :)
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Re: Numbers 13:16. Moshay changes the name הושע to יהושע

Postby Royce » Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:06 am

I will look at the context this name was used in using the verses you point out and get back bro. Thanks

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Re: Numbers 13:16. Moshay changes the name הושע to יהושע

Postby Royce » Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:40 am

Why do you set on shua when you say there are four ways it is found? The meaning would suggest that shua doesnt fit the Messiah wouldnt you think?

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Re: Numbers 13:16. Moshay changes the name הושע to יהושע

Postby willbrinsonferguson » Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:53 am

Why do you set on shua when you say there are four ways it is found?
Royce,
there are 5 and 6 letter variants of this name within the Masorete texts. The longer variant is found in Deuteronomy 3:21 and Judges 2:7. Neither of the Waws in any of the variations of the Masorete Text or those that Swalchy mentioned represent a consonant form. All uses of the Waws in this name are strictly there for the soul purpose to denote vowel sounds.

And being in the Hebrew language vowels are to be implied - even when not supplied - the first and last Waws in this name are to always be pronounce every time without exception. The Fact that the Waws where provided in the longer forms are proof that the shorter forms are to have these vowels pronounced within them. This is something that has to be looked upon in a Hebrew mind-set in order to come to the correct understanding.

And this name is not YaH with a Shuah added as a compound to it - but rather Hoshayah with a yohd prefixed unto it. The long U sound in Y'hoshuah is due to the inflection of the verb yasha being in its future tense. When the name was only but Hoshayah the root yasha was in its pasted tense and the vowel sound was the long A sound. So now we have Y'hoshuah, but again the shuah is not seperatre from the o in the "ho" sylable as the o is the Yohd of the root yasha morphed into a Waw whereby making the long O sound. If you try and steal this vowel from the root of yasha, by claiming it is the third letter of the Trigrammaton (YHU), then the root yasha is effectively destroyed along with its meaning of him doing the saving to him wanting to be saved within this name, whereby leaving it with the definition of "YaHu-Cries for help" instead of "he will save", as "shuah" denotes one who crys/calls out for help and not the act of one whom will save. Keeping this in mind the long U sound is not that of shuah but that of Y'hoshuah. This form still has the Waw that was morphed from the Yohd of yasha. As if is not allowable to separate this vowel from the letters following it with out destroying the root yasha along with its definition.

In order to see this one will have to learn Hebraic linguistics and Rules of Grammar and how it is never allowable to destroy a root. And being that the name started out using the root yasha (meaning salvation), and then with the addiction of the Heh went from the present tense unto the past tense as "he saved". Then when the Yohd was prefixed it changed the tense of the root unto its future tense resulting in "he will save". So what you have is the word yasha and the prefix with a Heh to form Hoshayah and then being added upon with yet another prefix of Yohd resulting in the new form of Y'hoshuah.

The vowel Yohd which was morphed into a Waw has to stick with the root word yasha [Hoshayah; Yehoshuah] and can not be reaprpreated to form another root as this is not ever allowed within Hebraic rules of Grammar.

So to advocate that the Trigrammaton of the Divine Name (YaHu) is part of this name is literally, whether one understands or not, laying claim (within the Rules of Hebrew Grammar) that the definition is "YaHu cries for help"! And this is clearly not the definition of this name, but rather "He Shall Save" (i.e. - Y'hoshuah)!

{Mat_1:21} And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call His Name יהושוע : for He shall save His people from their sins.
May,
YHWH bless thee and keep thee;
YHWH cause His face to shine on thee, and be gracious to thee;
YHWH lift up His face to thee, and give thee shalom.


Your brother in Y'hoshuah The Anointed One.

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Re: Numbers 13:16. Moshay changes the name הושע to יהושע

Postby Royce » Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:58 am

So I take it you are fluent in Hebrew? I really dont trust the Masoretic text as much as the pre Masoretic since the Masorites appear to have taken it upon themselves to alter many things. I am about to go to bed but i will read your post again tomorrow before asking more question. Thanks for the feedback Will

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Re: Numbers 13:16. Moshay changes the name הושע to יהושע

Postby willbrinsonferguson » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:25 am

Royce,

I am barely fluent with English even though it is my native language, but with the help of spell checkers and dictionaries I am able to converse with others in writing legibly.

As for the Hebrew language I am learning, and am by no means fluent. I do converse (in English) with others that are fluent and they help me here and there to understand things about the Hebrew language.

The fellow that taught me about this name not only studies the Scriptures from Hebrew and Aramaic and Greek only, but is also making and English translation of the Eastern PeshittA. He converses regularly with others that are fluent in Hebrew and Aramaic languages as well as Greek. He is well versed in linguistics and I have been blessed to be able to converse with him.

Anyway most people can not receive this teaching because they either do not want to let go of the name Jesus or because they have fallen for the THEORY that The Anointed One's Name has to PHYSICALLY have His Father's Name as a part of His. And with the first three letters being the exact same letters as that in His Father's Name it is easy to fall for this THEORY. I myself was teaching any body that would listen to me that The Anointed One's Name was YaHu-Shuah.

But when The Anointed One said that He came in His Father's Name He did not say that His Name has His Father's Name within His Name. And when one takes into consideration that the word in Hebrew for name (shem) can also be defined as authority it should become even more clear that He came in His Father's Authority not actual Name.

The Anointed One said "I am come in my Father's Authority, and you receive me not: if another shall come in his own authority, him you will receive". {Joh_5:43}

Considering the context of this story in Joh 5 the Yehudish leaders where not disagreeing with Yehoshuah as to what his Name was or how to spell it, but rather why Yehoshuah was doing the things He was doing. Yehoshuah was answering the Yehudish leaders why he had just healed a man. And that He did so because it was of His Father's will that He do such things. The conversation had nothing to do with His Name, but rather His Authority to do such things as healing on the Shabbawth. Yehoshuah was telling them that He had the Authority of His Father to do these things, and that if another person was doing things by their own authority they would not be having this same problem with them as they were having with Yehoshuah.

But He did speak and teach others to speak the Divine Name of His Father no doubt. But still this does not mean that His Name has to physically bare within it the Trigrammaton (YaHU) of the Divine Name.

The Theory that the Anointed One's Name has to physically have a written/phonetic form of His Father's Divine Name within it is built on the same type of conjecture that the Lunar Shabbawth Theory was built off of. Each Theory has Scriptures in which to build their case all the while neither has any factual bases. Keep in mind many an idea has been fostered in which one can use Scriptures to try and support if one takes the Scriptures out of context. Happens all the time.

The linguistics of this name were in play thousands of years before the above mentioned THEORY ever came about. In fact this THEORY is not more than 90 years old (upon the birth of The Sacred Name Movement). There is no other writings any where that taught that this name had the Physical form of the Trigrammaton of The Divine Name within it. Now that may seem old to us but when considering that it came about nearly 1,910 years after The Resurrection of The Anointed One it should make one wonder just what was the common belief pertaining to this Name before the 1930s.

When one does an honest investigation into the Hebrew language's rule of grammar they will come to see that this name only appears to have the Trigrammatom of the Divine Name within it. Many fluent Hebrew speakers have never even bothered to consider how the linguistic rules apply to this name. Most just take the definition within the Strong's dictionary at face value that the name means "YaHU Saves". But again it simply means "He will Save" refeerring to The Anointed One not His Father YHWH. And back when Moshay first called Hoshayah "YeHoshuah" Moshay was referring that Hoshayah through his actions of faith would save the Hebrew Nation.

Even the Aramaic form of this name (Yeshua) is defined as "he will save".
H3442
ישׁוּע
yêshûa‛
For H3091; he will save;

Wonder where they got that from? If you will notice it says that this Aramaic form is for H3091.

H3091
יהושׁע יהושׁוּע
yehôshûa‛ yehôshûa‛

And any one can see that the five letter and the six letter versions of this name are pronounced exactly the same. Again vowels did not have to be supplied for the reader in the Hebrew writing as they knew what vowels to apply through oral tradition.

In the English language just because a word has the same consonants as another word does not mean that it has to have the same vowels. Take the letters "cm", they could stand for "come" or "came". This being and action word shows as an example of how the vowels change within the word yasha to Hoshayah to Yehoshuah. Also the letters "dg" can either have the vowel "i" or "o" added between them to make up two completely different things. Just because they share common consonants does not mean that they are related in any way. There are literally thousands of example in the English Language that show that one can not just assume because one word has common consonants then the vowels must be the same. Hebrew is no different.
May,
YHWH bless thee and keep thee;
YHWH cause His face to shine on thee, and be gracious to thee;
YHWH lift up His face to thee, and give thee shalom.


Your brother in Y'hoshuah The Anointed One.

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Re: Numbers 13:16. Moshay changes the name הושע to יהושע

Postby willbrinsonferguson » Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:40 am

Why do you set on shua when you say there are four ways it is found? The meaning would suggest that shua doesnt fit the Messiah wouldnt you think?
You may think you see "shua" just as many think they see the tetragrammaton but it isn't. It is oshua you are seeing with the Yodh and a Heh prefixed. Read the article again and slow down this time. You will see that yasha had morphed in to oshayah with the Heh prefixed to it (i.e. - Hoshayah) and then once the Yohd was prefixed the root morphed again into oshua being it now carries the Yohd and Heh prefixes (i.e. - yehoshua. This is due to the tense changing, just as come and came, or run and ran, etc... It is a matter of the vowels changing as the tense changes. So again there is no shua it only appears that way when one tries to dissect the root word and tries to make it what it isn't.
May,
YHWH bless thee and keep thee;
YHWH cause His face to shine on thee, and be gracious to thee;
YHWH lift up His face to thee, and give thee shalom.


Your brother in Y'hoshuah The Anointed One.

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Re: Numbers 13:16. Moshay changes the name הושע to יהושע

Postby willbrinsonferguson » Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:47 am

Full form: יהושוע - Yod, Hey, Vav, Shin, Vav, Ayin
Evidenced in the Dead Sea scrolls: Deuteronomy 3:21 (4Q40Deutm); Joshua 6:10, 8:3, 8:35 & 10:4 (4Q47Josha)

Second form: יהושע - Yod, Hey, Vav, Shin, Ayin
Evidenced in the Dead Sea Scrolls: Exodus 17:13 & 14 (4Q14 Exodusc); Numbers 32:28 (4Q23 Levi-Numa); Deuteronomy 31:21 & 28 (4Q31Deutd); Joshua 4:1 (twice - 4Q48Joshb), 6:6 (4Q47Josha), 17:4, 14, 15 (4Q48Joshb); Haggai 1:1 (4Q77MinProb), 1:14 & 2:4 (MurXII & 4Q77MinProb).

Third form (previously unknown before DSS discovery): יהשוע - Yod, Hey, Shin, Vav, Ayin (Yahshua)
Evidenced in the Dead Sea Scrolls: Exodus 17:9, 13, 32:17 (4Q22paleoEx); Numbers 26:65, 27:22 (4Q27Numb); Zechariah 3:9 (4Q80e)

Fourth form (previously unknown before DSS discovery): יהשע - Yod, Hey, Shin, Ayin
Evidenced in the Dead Sea Scrolls: Joshua 5:2, 3, 8:35 (4Q47Josha)
Swalchy, where can I get a look at the copies of the dead sea scrolls to check on these place where the name has the variant readings? Is there a Website with them listed as you have noted them above?
May,
YHWH bless thee and keep thee;
YHWH cause His face to shine on thee, and be gracious to thee;
YHWH lift up His face to thee, and give thee shalom.


Your brother in Y'hoshuah The Anointed One.

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Re: Numbers 13:16. Moshay changes the name הושע to יהושע

Postby Swalchy » Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:13 am

Unfortunately there is no website that has them listed.

I've provided transcriptions for the Minor Prophets book on this site - 4Q77MinProb | MurXII | 4Q80e

But I've yet to get to the other books listed above
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Re: Numbers 13:16. Moshay changes the name הושע to יהושע

Postby willbrinsonferguson » Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:23 am

What is the difference between -
DSS_-_4Q80e_(4QXIIe)_Full and DSS_-_4Q80e_zechariah; and also are
DSS_-_4Q77b_(4QXIIb)_Full and DSS_-_4Q77b_haggai different or what?
May,
YHWH bless thee and keep thee;
YHWH cause His face to shine on thee, and be gracious to thee;
YHWH lift up His face to thee, and give thee shalom.


Your brother in Y'hoshuah The Anointed One.

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Re: Numbers 13:16. Moshay changes the name הושע to יהושע

Postby Swalchy » Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:24 pm

DSS_-_4Q80e_zechariah just contains the text of Zechariah from Manuscript 4Q80e; whereas DSS_-_4Q80e_(4QXIIe)_Full contains the full text of the manuscript 4Q80e, which contains not just Zechariah, but Haggai as well.

The same applies to 4Q77b.
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Re: Numbers 13:16. Moshay changes the name הושע to יהושע

Postby Royce » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:03 pm

wow, i have to catch up here


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