TWTY-Admin, you have commented several times that circumcision is only related to living in the land. I cannot see how you have come to this conclusion. Abram was given possession of the land well before circumcision was ever mentioned.
Gen 12:7 And יהוה appeared to Aḇram and said, “To your seed I give this land.”
Gen 13:14 And after Lot had separated from him, יהוה said to Aḇram, “Now lift up your eyes and look from the place where you are, northward and southward and eastward and westward,
Gen 13:15 for all the land which you see I shall give to you and your seed forever.
Gen 15:7 And He said to him, “I am יהוה, who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans, to give you this land to inherit it.”
We are told in the 12th chapter that Abram was 75 when he left Ur. So Yah gave him and his heirs the land when he was 75. He was 99 before Yah ever mentioned circumcision, and had affirmed at least twice in that time that the land was Abram’s and his seed’s. So to say that in the 17th chapter now that circumcision was being given as a condition of ownership of the land would mean God said 3 times over the course of 24 years I give you this land, then the 4th time he added but…
So since Abram already had possession of the land by chapter 17 it makes no sense that circumcision is only related to possession of the land. Furthermore the context of Yah’s word does not come across this way at all, at least to me.
Gen 17:1 And it came to be when Aḇram was ninety-nine years old, that יהוה appeared to Aḇram and said to him, “I am Ěl Shaddai – walk before Me and be perfect 1. Footnote: 1Messiah gives the same command in Mt. 5:48.
Gen 17:2 “And I give My covenant between Me and you, and shall greatly increase you.”
Gen 17:3 And Aḇram fell on his face, and Elohim spoke with him, saying,
Gen 17:4 “As for Me, look, My covenant is with you, and you shall become a father of many nations.
Gen 17:5 “And no longer is your name called Aḇram, but your name shall be Aḇraham, because I shall make you a father of many nations.
Gen 17:6 “And I shall make you bear fruit exceedingly, and make nations of you, and sovereigns shall come from you.
Gen 17:7 “And I shall establish My covenant between Me and you and your seed after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be Elohim to you and your seed after you.
Gen 17:8 “And I shall give to you and your seed after you the land of your sojournings, all the land of Kenaʽan, as an everlasting possession. And I shall be their Elohim.”
Gen 17:9 And Elohim said to Aḇraham, “As for you, guard My covenant, you and your seed after you throughout their generations.
Gen 17:10 “This is My covenant which you guard between Me and you, and your seed after you: Every male child among you is to be circumcised.
Gen 17:11 “And you shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall become a sign of the covenant between Me and you.
Gen 17:12 “And a son of eight days is circumcised by you, every male child in your generations, he who is born in your house or bought with silver from any foreigner who is not of your seed.
Gen 17:13 “He who is born in your house, and he who is bought with your silver, has to be circumcised. So shall My covenant be in your flesh, for an everlasting covenant.
Gen 17:14 “And an uncircumcised male child, who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, his life shall be cut off from his people – he has broken My covenant.”
It seems clear to me that this is the establishment of the Covenant, and that possession of the land is only one benefit of it. He list several benefits of the covenant the land being among them, and then gives a condition, circumcision. To limit this covenant to only possession of the lamb is to pull one benefit out and say that it is only for that benefit, I would point out that anther benefit mentioned is, “And I shall be their Elohim.” So why not pull that out and say this Covenant is only related to Yah being our Elohim? The fact is the covenant being established here is related to all the benefits listed here, including possession of the land and Yah being your Elohim, and is contingent upon you agreeing to it by circumcising your sons and yourself if you parents failed to do so.
17:14 says that an uncircumcised male is to be cut off, and that he has broken Yah’s Covenant. It doesn’t say uncircumcised Jewish males, it doesn’t say uncircumcised native born males, it doesn’t say uncircumcised males living in the land, any male who is not circumcised has broken the covenant.
Furthermore Yah tells us repeatedly that there is but 1 Torah for the native born and the gentile. This tells me that anything that applies to Jew applies to gentiles. There is but one narrow path which leads to life and it is the same for everyone.
Short of instructions given to a particular tribe, i.e. the Levites, can you show me any other instructions which you would say only apply to Jews, and not Gentiles? It seems to me that circumcision is the only instruction anyone tries to limit exclusively to Jews, I could be wrong and you may have many you think only apply to the native born, but this is the only one that those who try or claim to follow Torah universally want to ignore and pin on only Jews.
No one has been able to show me any place where Yah explicitly states that circumcision is not needed. Every time he addresses it, it is to say do it. So why would you assume that that only applies to one group, again there is but 1 Torah for the native born and the gentile.
I don’t expect this to change your mind, but I just felt compelled to say something, since numerous times I have seen this comment made and go unanswered.