Well one only needs to see Petros' response to the Set-Apart Spirit coming upon Cornelius and his family to realise that circumcising them was far from Petros' mind; Acts 10:44-48: While Peter was still saying these things, the Set-Apart Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the trustful from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Set-Apart Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Petros declared, “Can anyone withhold water for immersing these people, who have received the Set-Apart Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Messiah Yahushua. Then they asked him to remain for some days.It definitely seems that being circumcised doesn't preclude you from having a relationship with God - The Ruach Kodesh in-dwelt non-circumcised people as mentioned in Acts, so we know that it's nothing to do with salvation which is good to know.
I've been re-looking at Exodus 12:48 today, and it hit me: We all know that the Passover feast is a prophecy of the Messiah's death, but we all forget that whilst being a prophecy, it still has to be "performed". And we perform it this way: we bring a lamb, we bring it into our home for four days, getting to know it, love it, and take care of it, and then at the end of the fourth day, we all gather and offer it as a sacrifice.It's obvious being physically done isn't enough, but should be of the heart. The real question is, is being of the heart enough and do you 'miss' out on anything if you're not done physically (e.g. only the physically circumcised can 'do' passover (that's the verse that most people who think you should be done seem to cite Ex12:48), (only the circumcised are allowed inside the millennial temple etc).
Too much yelling going on in that thread. And the response to what TBT said is quite disgusting. Disagree with him if you want, but don't deride or scorn him like he just killed your sister.PS - if you can face it I'd love your thoughts on the YY thread on this.
Well this is my issue too... If you are going to get snipped coz you need to be to get "in" - you surely have to do it for the right reasons? Can any doctor do it for you, or would you need someone who would actually know why they were doing it? If you get done as a Jewish baby everyone kinda knows why... Surely it's like baptism, what's the point if the people around you don't share in the sign - coz it dosen't change you as a person - well maybe you walk a little funny for a week or so..."Just Do It'. Funny thing is one of the options is a muslim Dr in London - would it still count if an Imam did it
As for TTC by KP, I have the draft copies of the first volume (chapter 1-3) and the second volume (chapter 4), which he says he might still apply some editing. But if you want to read em just let me know.Like Noah’s covenant, this one was sealed with a sign, but this time the sign was to be enacted by the beneficiary of the covenant. “And God said to Abraham, ‘As for you, you shall keep My covenant, you and your offspring after you throughout their generations. This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your offspring after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised. You shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between Me and you.” (Genesis 17:3-11) I’m planning on covering the symbolic aspects of circumcision in detail in a future chapter, but for now, notice a few salient points: The sign was to be carried out among Abraham’s offspring (a fact that was reinforced later in the Torah). Circumcision (the surgical removal of the tip of the foreskin of the penis) could only be performed on males, one of several clues that this was not a condition for God’s compliance with His part of the covenant (which would benefit both men and women), but was rather an act that signified that the covenant was already in force. The heart of the covenant had been given to Abram decades before the sign was instituted (see Genesis 12).
We would logically expect to see some symbolic link between the covenant and its sign. The promise was that Abraham would be the father of multitudes, that his offspring would inherit the Land, and (as it’s stated in Genesis 12:3) “I [Yahweh] will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.” Admittedly, you have to look hard for the connection, and in the end, you have to understand how the covenant would play out in history: Abraham’s male Descendant, Yahshua, would be the vehicle through which “all the families of the earth” would be blessed. How? Through the complete and permanent removal of our sins from us—a process that, like the sign of circumcision, involved blood, pain, and obedience to Yahweh. Yahshua’s sacrifice on our behalf achieved everything the covenant of Abraham required. And, as with circumcision, once our sins are removed from us through this process, they’re gone forever.
It was inevitable, I suppose, that a raging controversy would arise pitting those who focused only on the sign against those who comprehended only what it signified. Think of it this way. In order to come to Yahweh, we have to get off the world’s broad highway leading to destruction, making a “right turn” (so to speak) onto the narrow path that leads to life. Circumcision is like the turn indicator signal in our car. Just as we are supposed to flip on our blinkers to alert those sharing the road of our intentions, so Israel, following Abraham, was instructed to circumcise their male children, making their intention to turn toward Yahweh clear to the gentiles following them.
But—and this is important—the signal is not the same thing as the turn. It does no good to click on your blinker if you never actually change direction; it’s confusing, misleading, and sometimes even dangerous. It is, in fact, a lie. In the end, it’s the turn that’s essential. To get to our intended destination, we must choose to follow Yahweh’s path. So Yahweh begs Israel to follow through on the symbol of circumcision: “Circumcise yourselves to Yahweh; remove the foreskin of your hearts, O men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem; lest My wrath go forth like fire, and burn with none to quench it, because of the evil of your deeds.” (Jeremiah 4:4) Circumcision of the flesh is not really the point, He says. What’s critical is what it means—the separation of the sin from the soul.
But what if we “turn right” without signaling first? That’s the scenario being discussed in Acts 15, where it was determined by the Jewish Christians that gentile believers need not be physically circumcised in order to be saved. Making the turn is what’s needful. Consider this: although the traffic laws require you to signal before you make a turn, using your turn indicator is theoretically pointless if you’re the last vehicle in line—if there is no one behind you to see it. It is a good thing to follow the letter of the law, of course. We should do so, since the regulations are there for our benefit and safety. But what’s critically important is that we reach our destination, not the flawless adherence to the rules of the road while we’re on our journey.
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