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only a million questions

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:32 am
by Zolana
I am thinking that I might not be the only one who's head is about to explode.... and I really don't know where to start? I was raised Baptist and was a really bad christian all my life. I won a free trip to the desert with my battle buddies for a year and found my bible. I came home, and after a lot of struggle and fighting with self and family, I started to attend an SDA church. I really didn't know any one else kept the Sabbath :lol: . I did some research on Ellen White and found that I did not agree with her prophet status, but she seemed to only point to Christ? I pray that God would help me understand how she was leading people astray, and then I started to notice inconsistencies with Paul's writings, and now it all makes sense.

I stumbled on to Yada Ya and right away flags went up that said "stop reading this, this stuff is crazy", but 3 months ago had someone told me Paul was not an apostle, I would have said the same thing. So while I am searching for the truth and trying to understand, some of this stuff is really just to long!!! Can anybody paraphrase? I have 2 young girls and get pretty bad headaches so reading 1000 pages online is just impossible for me. I want to ditch the no no words like Jesus and start using Yehushua, but some of these words I see in your posts, I am not familiar with.

One more thing... Sorry... I read another post (a discussion on passover) and they were talking about eating lamb. You don't sacrifice a lamb for all the feasts today right? I am sure that is a really stupid question, but sda's teach the feasts are no longer needed so this is all really new to me.

Re: only a million questions

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:08 pm
by Swalchy
Hi Zolana,

Unfortunately, there really isn't an easy or quick way to paraphrase/shorten all the new information you've been reading. It is frankly impossible to shorten everything down to a quick few paragraphs, as everything runs very deep, and goes back a long way.

I will advise you to take what you read on YY or its associated websites (which this one isn't, btw) with a sea worth of salt though. CW really isn't the most reliable or impartial authority on what is/isn't the truth.

You're right thought - Paul wasn't an Apostle. But then neither was Peter, Yahuchanon (John), Ya'qob (James) or any of the others - they were "emissaries" or "delegates" (hence why in the translations on TWTY, you won't find the loaded title "Apostle" in any of its 850,000 words). The Greek word αποστολος/apostlos was used to refer to anyone who carried a message from someone else to another - it wasn't a title that should've transliterated as "Apostle".

Plus no, we don't sacrifice a lamb on Passover. We do however cook a lamb leg we've bought from the supermarket :)

If there are some words you see being used and want to know the meaning of, please feel free to send us a list, and I'll gladly explain them to you - admin - at - (replace " - at - " with @ sign").

Re: only a million questions

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:43 pm
by Zolana
Thanks for the reply! I am not really looking for a few short paragraphs so much as I am trying to avoid feelings, and personal opinions, because I have had a lot of that. I am hoping to find something that is logical and simple (no need to beat a dead horse). Then when things really start to make sense, you can dig deep. For example... the feast of first fruit seems to be really debated, but in the scriptures it gives a date for the Passover and the feast of unleavened bread, but tells you to count 50 days to Pentecost from the morrow after the Sabbath (no date). If it was talking about the 16th of the month, it would always be on the same date, and there would be no need to count. This seems very logical to me. I know there are pages and pages of debate over this, but maybe God provided a simple answer in his scripture. I don't speak Hebrew or Aramaic, and I am horrible with computers, so maybe I am wrong. I am not clinging to a church or any man made traditions, I don't want to fight or argue, I just want to find the truth. This is making me feel ill, and kind of sad. My friends think I am crazy, and I think I am about to be shunned! :( :lol:

Every time I think I am finally starting to understand, things begin to unravel. I am confused! I thought the adventist church made great sense of prophetic scripture and then I came to Zechariah 14. The NT seems to say that when Yehushua returns it is the last day, and the dead in Christ are raised and we all go to heaven, and the earth is destroyed. But in Zech 14 it says the wicked are here on earth with us and Christ? Is there some one that can help me understand? I feel like I am back at square one. Is there a 7 year trib or not, are we here or there? I feel like I am reading two different books that can't be talking about the same thing. If I cut Paul out, do things start to make sense? I am rambling and probably not making a lot of sense, sorry if I am overwhelming you! Thanks for any direction you may have to offer.

For His Glory...

Re: only a million questions

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:58 am
by Rob
Hi Zolana, Welcome to the forums!

Firstly a little about me, I'm married with 3 kids, my wife and I agree on what we think about all this crazy stuff :D I'm sure my wife would be better at answering or helping you with things so I will ask her to poke her noes in here too :) We fell out of Christianity about 6 years ago now, about the same time as Stephen, and lost all our contacts in church with it. I wouldn't call them friends really, I think friends would have stuck by us a little better. We were kind of forgotten about, it wasn't the best feeling in the world. The church we were at was quite busy and social and having that removed did leave a void.

Ok so take a deep breath and don't panic. :)

First off there is a lot of information and a lot of it is simple and makes sense - actually everything I have learnt and understood has been logical and simple so far, even if it's been a bit deeper than learning about passover, it always links in and makes sense somewhere. What you need to understand though is different people have different opinions on a loads of this stuff, and I think as long as those people aren't forcing you to think that they are "right" you can figure a lot of it out for yourself.

There are sites and resources that will make you feel stupid for either not understanding or thinking they way they do, if you ever feel like that remember it is their problem and not yours. Hidden in the stuff that Craig writes is a little bit of "if you don't think like me you are obviously a moron" - so although there is a lot of good and useful information in there some of his ideas are questionable.

On Paul: Some people say he was Satan/possessed/influenced - some people say he was exactly who he said he was. Personally I have not found enough evidence for the first one and more evidence to the fact that he was taken advantage of at a later date (as in people forging or changing letters from him). The issue with that is there are books accredited it Paul in the "new testament" that I don't think he wrote. Best way I have found to deal with the letters is to not take them as Scripture, because they were never designed or intended to be Scripture anyway. If you read them from the view point of looking advice or historical interest they are a lot more helpful and have no hold over you.

Like Stephen said there is a truck load of stuff to get your head into if you want it, but what I would do first is look into the meanings of the feasts. I think they are the most important part of finding our way home, and I would recommend anything Ken Power has written on them - although Craig has written some good stuff (if you blank out the random stabs at Paul for no contextual reason). Ken is another guy you might have heard of, he used to work with Craig back in the day. I don't agree with Ken's point of view on many things but the difference is Ken is a very gentle man and he doesn't force himself or his views on anyone. He is extremely wise, although I doubt he would ever admit to that, basically he is the kind of guy you would want as a father/grandfather lol. There was a little disagreement with Ken and Craig a year or so ago when Craig brought out the terribly researched anti Paul stuff." onclick=";return false;" onclick=";return false;

You will probably have to forget stuff you were told and start again with a fresh mind, I found we had to kinda do that. It's a wonderful road of discovery but it's not easy, and I suppose it's not meant to be. Again I'll ask Ju to read your posts too, but again welcome to the forum and don't feel afraid to ask anything :)

Re: only a million questions

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:59 pm
by Juski
Hi Zolanda, I'm Rob's wife. It's great to hear from you and believe me I've had all the concerned, doubts and confusion you'e experiencing. The hardest bit for me is how do I do this with the kids? I get my head around one thing and then another question comes along and that is really tough when you want to give your children the truth. The other thing I really struggle with is the length of text that needs reading to help you get your head round stuff - I find that really hard and usually give up quickly! Work, kids, home doesn't leave a huge amount of energy for studying!

I've found working on one thing at a time helpful. We started with the names - switching to yahweh and yahsushua came fairly easily to me and the kids have jsut happily accepted the change. We now follow the 7 feasts, and avoid christmas easter etc. This was weird at first but now is great. We weaned ourselves off christmas over a number of years and now 3 years with no christmas and we are all very happy and don't miss it all. Other changes have come bit by bit as we've discovered new stuff. But everything we've done we've talked to the kids about and been as honest as we can and said "we don't know all the answers, we're giving this a go, and we'll see what happens."

Anyway, it has been really tough. As rob said we lost most of our friends, and our families thought we were crazy at first (now they dont agree with us, but all of them came to a tabernacles party we had this weekend, which is fabulous!) Each new revelation sets off another load of questions. But I have to say I feel incredibly at peace and know we are heading in the right direction.

Looking forward to talking to you more


Re: only a million questions

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:42 pm
by Zolana
Hi Rob and Juski!
I have really desired strongly to remove my family from all pagan holidays for several years now. This is really hard to do when you have parents on both sides that do not agree, and can be a little mean about it. For the last three years or so we have exchanged gifts on the 24th because, it seemed a little less offensive, but still kept people happy. My sister just started to attend a messianic church and is now giving up all the christian holidays, which makes me so happy! I think we fought more about scripture than anyone else, but with prayer all things are possible! We are making the change this year, but I am back at square one as far as study goes.

Being a mother of 2, I can totally agree with lack of time! We live up in the mountains and have 7 goats and 22 chickens. So with the farm and fam, I am either studying scripture or cleaning the house, but it is really hard to do a good job at both!

Re: only a million questions

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:15 am
by willbrinsonferguson
Hi Zolana,

I too have switched from being a 1st Baptist following a Torahless Jesus to now Following Yehoshuah in observing Torah.

I have found the same thing when studying that once you think you have weeded through and think you have come to understand a subject new evidence appears and once again we find ourselves back at square one on any given subject. Know your not the only one that has experienced this.

As Rob and Juski mentioned take it one day at a time holding to what you have learned and be willing to adjust as time goes until you have had the time to study enough stuff to lock in on some stuff.

Personally, I have BBQ(ed) a lamb whole on Passover as we were told to do throughout our generations as a remembrance, not the special event over again. Anyway the Passover Lamb was never done as a sin sacrifice to start with as many have believed. So BBQ(ing) a lamb for Passover is not re-sacrificing a lamb for our sin every year whereby counting The Anointed One's sacrifice unsufficient. It is only now a memorial service, not the act its self. People have read far to much into the story and think that now we should not cook the lamb anymore, but you will not find this in Scripture.

As far as the dating of the feast of Weeks (a.k.a. - Pentacost) goes reading Philo and Josephus are some good historical helps to understanding how the 1st century Yehudeem [Jews] practiced their beliefs.

Sadly I can not offer any short cuts to getting around studying either but I can recommend reading some articles that I seem to be the better studies over others. Let me know if you would like to be directed to some on.

As for Paul/Shaul Kepha[Peter] backed him up! As for his writing Kepha said that they where hard to understand and that many have twisted what he really said. Also the Church of the East have all of his writings and they lay claim that they received the letters directly from the apostles themselves (yes even the book of Hebrews). But as Rob said the Renewed Covenant (a.k.a. - New Testament was not considered to be the Scriptures back when they were being written only the so-called Old Testament was thought to be Scriptures back in the day. So we should do the same as they did using the Emissaries writings as a helpful guide to reveling the truths of the Scriptures written by Moshay[Moses] and the prophets. (for good studies on which texts of the Renewed Covenant we should hold to be authentic see: ... d-Covenant" onclick=";return false; )

Anyway no matter what revelation you may have do not lord (try and force feed) it to others or they will not want it. Just begin living your life as you have come to learn and again be willing to change if warranted. This is a journey we have come to undertake not just a one time change, so be willing to learn as you go. Unfortunately a lot of study is involved and will take time to digest it all. In time as with all we will come to fine tune our beliefs as we acquire more facts. I started with the Divine Name of YHWH and after 4 years of extensive research have come to the conclusion that while we have some ideas of how it was to be pronounced we really may never know until the Day of YHWH comes.

Keep the faith and do not lose heart. Again I believe we have all gone through what you are feeling.

Re: only a million questions

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:24 am
by Zolana
Thanks Will!
I do have another question. What is considered Torah, and is the scripture rendered commandments in the NT always talking about the Torah or is it sometimes talking about the 10 commandments? Who named the first 5 books the Torah? Is there something here that connects the dots? Thanks again!

Re: only a million questions

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:27 am
by willbrinsonferguson
Hey Zolana,

personally I believe that the commandments referred to in the Renewed Covenant Writings are basically any commandments within the Scriptures, which are in the First 5 Books their of. The Scriptures commandments are referred to as Torah in the Hebrew (a.k.a. - "Instructions/Law" in English) Scriptures themselves. Being the commands are in the first 5 Books they have become known as "The Torah". The whole of the Scriptures (a.k.a. - Old Testament) is referred to as the TaNaK, which is an ACRONYM for "Torah (Instructions) - Nawbeeeem (Prophets) - Kethubeem (Writings)". Again the Writings of the Emissaries (a.k.a. - are a helpful Guide to understanding the original Scrictures (a.k.a. - the TaNaK) as I have come to see it.

Love Eloheem with all your mind, soul, and spirit, and love others like unto yourself is what the Ten Commandments hang upon and the rest of the Torah, Prophets, and Writings hang the Ten. Everything is interconnected. So when we are commanded to obey the Commandments you can say we should hang on every word thereof. But remember we live by the Words because of our Faith in that Eloheem has send His Son to die and be the First born of the resurrection that we might follow in His foot steps unto Eternal Life, not because we will gain eternal life by keeping them. Yet Faith without works is dead, so we walk in the Instruction of our Heavenly Father in loving obedience not to work our way into Eternal life - as all have come short of the Splendor of Eloheem. It is by Faith in the plain Eloheem has made through His Anointed One (accompanied by work) that we are salvaged back into the state Awdawm[Adam] and Hawah[Eve] were in before their fall.

The Consecrated Days (Feasts and Shabbawths) are as remembrances to the total over all plain that YHWH has for mankind.

I am sure I have missed some things but I think I got most of the general though in. I hope this will help you gain some understanding.

and remember,
wisdom never lies inked to the pages coddled by a book, but yet supply about the inside of open minds, that render the confounds thereof. Yeah unto therefor, read the Word of YHWH ore and ore... ... ... Extolling ever and again to Thine be the Splendor HallaleYaH, awmain[Strong's #H543].

Re: only a million questions

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:23 pm
by Zolana
Please forgive me for being silly but, I was going through an online list of the laws in Torah and there were some that seemed strange to keep today. Do you keep them all, and if not what is the text in the RC that helps in distinguishing which should be kept? For example, it says not to castrate any male animal. I raise goats for milk, and not every male is going to be a herdsire, so those ones are wethered, is that not ok? Also, not to travel outside your place of residence on Shabbat?

Thanks for the info on the Torah, that helps a lot! I never new that was an acronym. Did Yehushua ever mention the 5 books being the Torah? It seems that whenever he spoke of the commandments he used one of the 10 as an example, so I am just looking for something concrete from His words. Also are there any verses that show the Apostles keeping the feasts after His ressurestion? This is a pretty clear concept for me, but my pastor wants to do a study with me know, and I am not really sure what to say. I remmember being talked out of the Sabbath for a year or two before I was really well versed and sure it was right. Its not that hard to make Sunday sound good to someone who is uneducated. Thanks again!

Re: only a million questions

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:13 am
by willbrinsonferguson
Hey Zolana,

First off, I do not even attempt to keep any of the priestly duty commandments. I believe we have one Priest now and that He is in the Heavenly Temple attending to His duties as we speak. Secondly, I do not stone anyone because I would be next in line to be stoned as I too am not perfect. I do keep a 7 year land Shabbawth, as well as the weekly one, and as many of the other commandment as I am aware of.

I do not see these commandments as keeping me from doing something that could benefit me, but rather from keeping me from doing something that is unbeneficial to me or others, as well as to animals. So in that respect, though I may fail at times to keep them all, I try to keep them all.

Being in Torah Covenant is a personal thing in which each person has to determine if YHWH had/has their/societies best interest in mind when He wrote the Instructions for us. These Instructions are to help us live lives of uprightness as well as in good health. He also was/is considerate of animals best interest.

As for castrating animals I would ask you do you do it out of compassion for their best interest or totally due to selfish reasoning? Anyway it is not healthy for the animals and more than likely not healthy for people to eat such animals. But instead of answering your question I will ask you a question instead - "Is it OK?"

I recommend you watch a (5 Part) video that helped me gain understanding of the true nature of the Torah within the Scriptures [a.k.a. - the Old Testament] called “The Way of YHWH”: ... fP6yNbU61A" onclick=";return false;
[Be sure and watch all 5 sections]

Also there is a good audio on the subject New Testament teachings of Torah @: ... A112645&xg" onclick=";return false;

And yes there are verses in the Renewed Covenant [a.k.a. - The New Testament] that show Shaul/Paul kept the Feast Days decades after the Resurrection. There is also many historical writings that attest that the early believers kept the Feast Days centuries afterwards as well.

Re: only a million questions

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:16 pm
by Zolana
:lol: I guess I should have given a little more info, but I don't eat my goats! They are nigerian dwarfs which are very small 22 inches about, and we breed for milk. Because they are what people call "very dairy" they put all their fat into their milk and not onto there body, so they really would not make good eats! Plus they are so cute and sweet! We castrate the males that are not used for breeding because they make great pets or companions for a doe. If they are left intact, they go into rut and pee all over themselves, and become a little more aggressive. I also neutered my dog and my vet told me he would live longer?

I wish I understood why some of these commandments were originally given, I will follow your links! Thanks again, you are very helpful!

Re: only a million questions

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:43 pm
by Swalchy
I think some of these questions, Laurie, deserve their own thread! Feel free to make them in the relevant sub-forums :)

Re: only a million questions

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:16 pm
by Rob
I wish I understood why some of these commandments were originally given, I will follow your links! Thanks again, you are very helpful!
This is the most important part :)

Sorry I've not had much time to really dig into these questions.