So it doesn’t make any sense that Paul would be telling other people, you know you don’t have to keep this day anymore, when he was keeping it and all the church was keeping it and all the apostles where keeping it and all the Gentiles where keeping it. - sermon
Everyone has reason to follow the principles behind the sabbath-law, because it reflects some of Gods insight. Some principles are: 1. rest regularly, 2. focus on spiritual matters regularly, 3. take a step back from a project to evaluate it. So, in case the first christian congregations were exempt from sabbath, they might still have treated the issue like that of meat sold in the market:... and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law ... - 1 Cor 9:20, nkjv
“All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up. - 1 Cor 10:23, RSV
This seems to be the nitty gritty. Could you argue against the inclusion of Paul's letters without attributing offensive opinions to him?I can't help but wonder if Paul wasnt printed in every Bible, if the Jews would come to see the truth about Messiah.
"Scholars"? What "scholars" do you refer to here?Swalchy,
Whether or not you agree, the majority of scholars believe that the ravenous wolf of Genesis 49 was Paul. Do you believe it was someone else?
Where?The word so commonly used by Saul, bondage, is always in reference to the law.
Again, where? There're quite a few words in 1 Cor 7 you see, and I find none that could be used to justify this statement of yours.In Corinthians 7, he was one again showing that we are not in bondage to the law anymore.
Where?Afterwards the Holy spirit told Peter that it was by his mouth the gentiles would hear the gospel.
Where?Why is it that Saul misquoted the scriptures so often?
This makes no sense. How can Paul have "never quoted the Messiah", but at the same time "misquote" him?He never quoted the Messiah. But he did misquote him.
He quotes from the Torah, the Prophets and the other writings of the Tanakh more than any other author in the RC writings combined. I honestly can't believe the ignorance in this statement.Why did he quote Greek plays about Zeus, instead of the patriarchs and prophets.
You have evidence that Paul ate meat sacrificed to idols? I don't think so. Also, since when was this equal to being a false prophet?It only takes 1 mistake to be a false prophet. Eating meat sacrificed to idols in the temple of an idol, should be enough.
The Mosaic law regulated matters in the nation of Israel, just like other nations have their own laws. Trying to follow the laws of several nations would overwhelm us with regulatory burden and impair our service of Yahuweh. Yet many Jews and Christians have tried just that by trying to obey the Mosaic law, Christ's law and the law of the land they live in. Now, some nation states have legal arrangements that are alternative to marriage, such as cohabitation and LAT. If an unbelieving spouse leaves a christian and enters into such a relationship, how much should the christian mock him/herself by inquiring about the unbelieving couple's sexual relation before being free to remarry, and how does that fulfill the purpose of the Mosaic law?Verse 15 of Corinthians 7
I wasn't being rude or unkind. I was giving an accurate description of what I saw.No need to be rude or unkind.
Yes, because it usually shows that the person who's done the C&P hasn't really thought about it at all, but just wants to regurgitate what someone else has written. This demonstrates a lack of thinking - I don't want to discuss a topic with someone, when I should be discussing it with the person they've decided to just C&P from.Is there a reason you are against copy and paste.
If you'd said that you yourself had written that and were just pasting from an email, then I wouldn't have been nearly as blunt about it as I was.I may have pasted it, but I pasted it from an email that I also wrote
Sorry, but didn't you say "scholars"? MH, JG and DG are Bible Commentators (not 'scholars'), and T, J and H are ECF (again, not 'scholars').Matthew Henry, John Gill, David Guzik, Tertullian, Jerome, and Hippolytus just to name a few.
1 Cor 7:15 mentions nothing of the law/Torah.Verse 15 of Corinthians 7
Acts 15:7Acts 15:7 Peter is the apostle to the gentiles
Where? Seriously Heph, how many times do I have to ask you "Where?" before you start backing up your statements with actual references.Paul attempted to quote Yeshua 1 time, and that one time he quoted wrong.
Having translated every single word of the books included in the modern 'New Testament' from the oldest known manuscripts, I'm afraid I don't agree with what you've said here at allIf you think he quoted the Torah so well, maybe you should proof text him, and see how many times he twisted it to suit his agenda.
I vehemently disagree that Paul led anyone the wrong way. You've not provided a single shred of evidence for any of the things you've said/stated.Whether or not he ate meat sacrificed to idols is not the point, nor is it relevant. He leads the sheep down the wide path and to destruction. Yeshua said this practice was not okay through his true apostles and through the revelation.
I don't quite feel like smiling when I'm having to deal with someone whom, like sestir has said, is practically trolling.We don't have to agree, but we should try to be civil. Take a deep breath and smile
I shall keep that in mindI didn't say I pasted my own words because I didn't know you could tell what was pasted and what wasn't. I can't. If it wasn't my words though, I would have added quotations.
I appreciate that, Heph, hence why I mentioned it might be wise to wait until you have access to a computer in order to take these discussions further. I personally wouldn't even be engaging in them if I was only able to use a mobile/cell phone.I am on a cell, not a computer, so it is not so easy for me to write freely and post links.
I've asked you to clarify your statements before I give a full answer. I don't know exactly what you're referring to, so I can't give a thorough enough response.But you have not answered anything that I have posted, you just deny everything I say, and it appears as wilful ignorance.
No he doesn't. Firstly he quotes the Corinthians own arguments, "all of us possess knowledge", "an idol has no real existence", and "there is no God but one", things that they'd been using as an excuse for their behaviour.For example, 1st Corinthians 8. In these 13 verses, he says an Idol is nothing, and so you can eat meat sacrificed to idols. If your conscience is weak and you think an idol is something, than you shouldn't eat it, and don't let a weak person see you sitting in the temple of an idol eating meat sacrificed to idols, because he is weak and it will cause him to stumble.
For the Greeks of Corinth, a woman with uncovered hair was not considered to be of high regard, and a man with long hair in Greek Corinth would've been implying even more.He added to Torah by saying a woman must cover her head, and then he said long hair was shame.
As per the numerous circumcision topics already on this forum, the Torah didn't require Gentile circumcision.He took away from Torah by saying we don't need to be circumcised.
Yup. but as Paul didn't write Ephesians, this point is moot.Did you translate ephesians 4:8
I really don't care about the Aramaic. No matter whom the author of "Ephesians" is, it wasn't written in Aramaic, but in Greek. The Greek of Ephesians 4:8 quotes from the Septuagint, which was a translation of one of the different Hebrew text-types of the Tanakh which was around at the time (as evidenced by the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Hebrew of the Tanakh is not without its divergent versions).In the aramaic this is a misquote of the Holy scriptures.
*points to the question, "Where?"*...he contradicts the Messiah. Messiah said we are all brethren and not to call people father, Shepherd... and so on.
No, he really didn't. As evidenced by History, Ekklesia's in different geological locations had their own structures and ways of determining who was doing what. If it was true that Paul had "set up the church hierarchy that we have today", why is it that even today, different 'churches' have their own ways of doing things?Paul set up the church hierarchy that we have today, and it is against Yeshua.
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