The Way To Yahuweh Forum

That

was

awesome.

Great work! lol

Lassie. That is truly amazing.

Like so many subjects which I thought I knew about, the ten v's is yet another subject where I have had to dismantle and then start to rebuild. Thank you so much for posting this. This also comes from Joanna as well as me

Noel

One question, Lassie.

The last sentence challenges us to decide whether we are a wise or foolish virgin. But are we not a type of the bride, and therefore not actually in the virgin grouping? Is this group not referring to those who are not involved in the nuptuals (held before the reception) but are waiting to go in to the reception to celebrate the already married bride and groom's day.?

Noel

Noel,

That is a good question. But think, the Bridegroom in the Jewish wedding sets out to "abduct" the "Bride" per se, not the "guests"; I assume they are called "virgins" because the bride's attendants in a Jewish wedding (and in most weddings until recent times) were literally virgins; that is why they are called "bridesMAIDS" (maidens). In the parable there are multiple virgins because the Called-Out Assembly is a collective group of people; it is this Called-Out Assembly who is betrothed to the MessiYah and the Assembly is a 'virgin' because the consummation of the marriage has not yet taken place, but she is in a state of bethrothal during which time she is obligated to "keep the marriage agreement" until He comes. If she is not faithful, then she is an "unchaste virgin", and can be disqualified (just like the Foolish Virgins). The saying "went into the wedding feast" must mean the consummation as well as the party. I think the entire Scripture is replete with clues that the "bride" is supposed to be seeking out so she can know what "delights" her bridegroom... It also makes me think of Ruth; she was a Gentile, but she sure seems to have become "Jewish" and Torah compliant in order to marry Boaz, the redeemer . . .

I appreciate all your hard work on this Lassie - you've really worked hard on it and I'm learning a lot!
I do need some help with some of the thinking here - perhaps you can let me know your thoughts on the folowing which I'm just doing off the cuff so some of this may not make sense.

If this is a play I think it would look like this:
Bridegroom - Yahushua
Bride - set apart people (us)
Bridesmaids (not sure but I think this must be types of 'believers')

Historical Setting:
Bridegroom has promised to marry girl and a paid the ransom to her father
Bridegroom has gone to prepare a place for her
Bride is excited and looking forward to marriage

Scene 1 (Rapure)
Bride is snatched away by bridegroom and marriage is consummated

Scene 2 (Tribulation)
Bridesmaids (who bridegroom did not chose to marry!) are hanging around - some realise that the bride has gone and have bucked up their ideas and are now waiting for news of consummation - others couldn't care a less and are having a nap.

Scene 3 (Post Trib)
Marriage party kicks off Bride and bridegroom are centre of attention. There is a knock at the door - some bridesmaids get in, some do not.

Play over

Also remember that the bride goes away veiled in the Jewish marriage pattern and stays away for 7 days and comes back unveiled.

Forcing doctrine to fit scripture is sometimes like forcing the bits in to a jig saw puzzle, but landing up with a piece which simply does not fit.

The non fitting bit is that you land up with five persons losing their virginity in a wedding with one Bridegroom.

Some wedding. Presumably Mormon.

Noel

Also............ if the ecclesia is to be removed from the wrath to come, (which it is), then there will be two classifications of people in the tribulation. The ones who receive the truth and repent and alter their opinion, (the ones who will be then let in to the festivities) and the religious unsaved who will continue to believe in their false versions of christianity. Who are these people characterised as in the parable ? The ten virgins of course. If this is not them, then what characters in the parable represent the two classifications of people in the tribulation, in which we know many will come to a knowledge of the truth..


N--------------------------------------------l

I believe the 10 virgins represent the whole ekklesia; the coming of the Bridegroom is the paralambano/rapture; only SOME will be taken (one will be taken, one will be left); the 5 wise virgins are "ready" (they knew what "delighted" the Bridegroom) and are taken as the "bride" to rule and reign with the MessiYah, whereas the 5 foolish virgins were "not ready" (did not know what delighted the Bridegroom - Leodicea) and were therefore left to "buy oil" -- acquire obedience through the tribulation during which time they may be martyred . . . they will be dealt with after the tribulation. Just as EliYah and Elisha were "divided and separated" when EliYah was taken up, and the "Woman in travail" was "divided" when her "Manchild" was delivered and taken up and she was left on the earth to be hounded by the dragon.

Do you guys think our death is technically the consummation of the marriage? Once dead one's destiny is set. Even though death doesn't quite sound as pretty as having sex, when we die we do pass from mortality to immortality, from a mortal body to a spiritually immortal body.

it could be Matt... we can only put the wedding dress on at the moment - heading for the big day.

There appears to be (I think) two interpretations of what this Parable is being in reference to:

1) The Tribulation, and the bridesmaids representing two different types of people in it;

2) The paralambano/harpazo/harvest/rapture, and the bridesmaids representing the two types of believers at said event.

Usually I find, especially in the book of MattithYah, is that the surrounding circumstances to a few verses gives occasion as to why the parable is being spoken.

In this case, right before the parable of the 10 Virgins, there is Yahushua's discussion of the paralambano/harpazo/harvest/rapture (24:36-44). We then get the bridesmaids parable (25:1-13), followed by the Talents parable (25:14-30), and then Yahushua's description of the final separation (25:31-46).

The fact that we have these two parables (bridesmaids/Talents) between these two different events, I have to wonder whether this is done on purpose, as both parables are in fact speaking of both events - paralambano and separation - with both events not actually being that far from each other in Yahuweh's intent - to separate the good from the bad.

Just some late night musings on the subject

Feel free to correct me if I misunderstood people's interpretations of the parable - it wouldn't be the first time!

Lassie...........
Still await reply to my question .....how are tribulation saved and tribulation religious unsaved portrayed in the parable? Saved tribulation converts will be many.

The concept of working hard to stay in the right grouping is basically a Roman Catholic error based on works based salvation. Do you believe that you can lose your salvation? (and therefore have to return your garment of light for a refund)?!!!!!!!

You can definitely loose your salvation - if you walk away from Yah then that is that - your choice.

But then salvation isn't the prise - it's merely a side effect.

Q 1. So what is involved in walking away from Yah. Does not every teenager do it? In fact every human being on the earth even us with every third thought. What happens if you accidently die after looking at a picture of Jordan on the way in to Tescos.
Q 2. Can you be unborn (if you decide that you don't want to have the parents you got landed with?) If so, how? Could be a bit tricky physically.

N----------------------l

One more question.
Does the garment of salvation, the garment of light not sort of cover the sins? I jolly well hope so, otherwise there is no hope for me.

N-------------------------------------l

Lastly. Him that cometh unto me I will in no wise cast out.
All which he has given me I should lose nothing.

Is this all wrong too?

1 Shamu'el 16:14:
Now the Spirit of Yahuweh departed from Saul

Can Yahuweh's Spirit leave those it once inhabited?

Scripture says so.

Also notice that Yahushua says "I shall not cast out any who comes to me". Doesn't say that he won't let people walk away.

Although I think this is a much bigger discussion saved for a different topic. Feel free to start one

On the subject of where Saul went. Samuel says to him 'today you and your sons will be with ME'.
Samuel is one of the 10 individuals who are described as righteous and therefore in Abrahams Bosom (at the time)
Provided it was Samuel speaking, then he was saying that Saul would go to the same place the day after that conversation.

n

On another linked subject - why is Samuel talking to him? I never get the whole dead prophets talking to people... Yah tells us not to get messed up with talking to dead people... What's all that about?

I don't want to moan here but aren't these last few posts in the wrong thread?

Edit:

Oops, the other thread got created because of this.