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Questioning Paul Review - A look at the Galatians text

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Swalchy
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Re: Questioning Paul Review - A look at the Galatians text

Postby Swalchy » Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:35 pm

What can I say.

I make Ninja's look like amateurs
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Re: Questioning Paul Review - A look at the Galatians text

Postby BlessYahowah » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:59 pm

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Re: Questioning Paul Review - A look at the Galatians text

Postby Swalchy » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:18 pm

I hope I'm not the only one who sees the irony in CW having a go at Paul for going on about himself (even though actually, Paul really doesn't), yet CW also seems to go on about himself a lot and tell people the stuff that he's done.

I haven't listened to any of the new Radio show, but if what you've said above is an example of things being said, I'm glad I'm not even bothering
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Re: Questioning Paul Review - A look at the Galatians text

Postby Rob » Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:02 am

FLAME RAGE!

Sorry just thought I would start with that :D

I feel CW has gone off a little recently and I hope he comes back.

As for Paul being a liar, I don't think we have enough proof to say that, and proclaiming it as fact is far from a good thing to do. I think peoples personal opinions on the matter are fine, the problem for me comes when things are fabricated to prove a point and are declared as fact.

BlessYahowah

Re: Questioning Paul Review - A look at the Galatians text

Postby BlessYahowah » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:39 am

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Re: Questioning Paul Review - A look at the Galatians text

Postby Rob » Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:50 am

Exactly Rich.

Unfortunately it feels like because we don't agree with Craig we are pro-Paul, where personally that is not the case at all. So two camps are set up almost by default. I am not even sure Swalchy and myself agree 100% on everything Paul I dunno, because it really dosen't matter that much lol.

I can't post on YN forums until 2033, banned for some still unknown reason - (other than knowing Swalchy), what I have read there over the past few months has been quite troubling in the blind acceptance of what Craig says, especially regarding Paul, and the aggressive response to people who say "hang on a minute, what about...". I wish it would go back to how it was, honest searching to gain more understanding.

Paul dosen't matter, what does matter is pushing for truth in everything we do, so that we can truly give a balanced and rounded response to people who ask questions. People see through lies covered by passion and hate far too easily, and I don't want to have to make stuff up. If Yahuweh is who He said He is - all we have to do is discern as much as we can and adjust our opinion to match more revelation if that is what is required.

The last thing we need to do is "defend Yah". Swalchy has proven I would say that Paul isn't what Craig claims, but then I think anyone with half a brain could do that. Smaller things like "was he right" or "was he lying" we can never know - because Paul's letters are responses to letters that we don't have the original, so we really can never know the context of which he is talking. Plus the letters we have might even be the 3rd or 4th letter in consecutive succession.

There might even be more afterwards where Paul realises he said something badly or whatever, we can never know.

What he never did was claim what he wrote was Scripture. This is why I see him as a dude trying to do his best with no internet, email, skype, against the powers of religion, both Roman and "Jewish" tradition. Trying to explain things that I can't explain very well to my friends when they ask, because the subject is so large and connected it's hard to know where to start anyway. I also know much less than Paul did lol.

So yes it is very sad, but more sad was Craig's response to it all. I hope he can retrace his steps because he has now polluted the whole of YY with this anti Paul tripe, almost taking every opportunity to mention how evil he is. This kicks the message of YY in the balls, because it was a document full of earnest and honest study and revelation, "Don't take my word for it" was the slogan at the heart.

Now it is infested with lies and hate and for no reason at all. Paul really has no place in YY - hate him or not, just leave him out of it lol

Now I am rambling. It's very very sad. People are being silenced - The religion of Winn is born.

BlessYahowah

Re: Questioning Paul Review - A look at the Galatians text

Postby BlessYahowah » Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:16 pm

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Re: Questioning Paul Review - A look at the Galatians text

Postby Rob » Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:22 pm

Yea I am not anti-Winn either. He is a human, so am I, and I mess up enough to understand he can screw up. He has some great insights, I just pray he comes back down to earth. It makes me sad on the decisions he has made recently, mainly because he has been so public about them.

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Re: Questioning Paul Review - A look at the Galatians text

Postby YahTselem » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:28 pm

My 2 cents: it's not about Paul or Craig or Swalchy, or any of us.. it's about Yah. When I'm on TWTY, I think it's awesome.. it's the most accurate translation of the first century writings that currently exists IMO & I glean a lot from it. There is a slight "anti-Craig" tone, but I don't care and I just look right past it. As for YY & the radio show.. they are both still as awesome as ever. Yes, there is an anti-Paul tone, but it does not dominate in YY or the radio show..there has always been a very strong anti-religious tone.. the only difference being that now in addition to anti-islam, anti-christian, anti-politics, anti-government, now anti-paul is thrown in the mix.. big deal, it's just another anti that CW feels is anti-Yah. I'm not sure about Paul, but right now I don't care, I just want to learn more about Yah and the rest will come. I understand that QP is all about Paul, but YY & the radio show still have a ton of info to glean. I don't know who all has read it, but the new intro to God in YY is awesome so far.
Also, I know what CW said about McCain, but I don't see it as him lifting himself up at all.. he actually comes across (still) to me as humble as can be. I think when he refers to the Rich paying for the poor, he is saying that the system is screwed up, which it is. Yes, the poor need help, I need help sometimes because of being paycheck to paycheck, but the system in the USA is messed up. For example, if a poor husband and wife stay together, they probably won't qualify for govt help, but if they separate, then the wife can get help, which is anti-family and the reverse of what it should be. For me, I will never fully trust CW or any one on the forums, or anyone on earth, but only Yah.. trusting in men is what got man in trouble to begin. Okay, maybe that was 5 cents, not 2..

Rob
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Re: Questioning Paul Review - A look at the Galatians text

Postby Rob » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:53 pm

I do agree, but it is because it is about Yah that it is important to be truthful.

We do have to stand against untruth where it is seen, no matter what. Especially when it is spoken by people we care about and can effect a message or peoples decisions on certain things, i.e. circumcision.

When I say that I don't mean that I am right and Craig is wrong, I mean I want a good and useful discussion or rebuttal on why I am not right so that we can find out other problems in our thinking to them move forward towards truth. Swalchy has done this for Craig, and the only response for the months work on it was a banning from the forums as far as I can work out, and that is not a useful discussion.

Yes big deal that some people have different views - but these views need to be explored and found out why they differ. We aren't all right for sure, but there is always something that is right, and through discussion and humility that truth must be teased out as much as possible.

At the moment Craig promotes as a fact that Paul was who Craig thinks he was. If it was just his opinion and he treated it as such it wouldn't be as bad. But this is promoted as fact to be taken on board and learnt, and then that also will then effect what people do and who they trust.

It is wrong to promote anything falsely - especially when it effects peoples decisions.

I don't think there is any anti Craig thing here, I think Swalchy is very disappointed in how a person he looked up to could be so illogical - but everything else was done against the work Craig presented, and not against Craig personally.

I know Craig wants to get to the truth as much as any of us, and this is why I feel it is important. I feel he has sold himself short on this one, waaay short and is giving out false information. I just don't believe he want's to do this at all.

More ramble - sorry. :)

YahTselem
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Re: Questioning Paul Review - A look at the Galatians text

Postby YahTselem » Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:39 pm

Thanks Rob. I agree, truth should always be seeked out.

SonOfYah

Re: Questioning Paul Review - A look at the Galatians text

Postby SonOfYah » Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:30 pm

Listening to Craig Winn's radio show I heard that he is about to post a complete rewrite of Questioning Paul where in he claims he has completely re-translated every verse in it, at least in part based on your critique. I don't know if you are aware of this, but was wondering if you would consider revamping your critique based on the new translations.

Thanks for the website by the way.

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Re: Questioning Paul Review - A look at the Galatians text

Postby Swalchy » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:32 pm

Hi Son of Yah,

I will certainly go through QP again once the re-write has been completed and uploaded.

I guess I'll have to halt the critique of the Hebrew translations until then as well, as well as for the other Greek verses that had yet to be sorted through.

Saying that, I'm not expecting much. But hey, I may be surprised :)
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